Donnachaidh still gets it backwards.
The sociology data definitely confirms a causative correlation between poverty and family structure. Getting married and staying married dramatically increases the probability that people will be financially successful. However; stable marriage does not guarantee financial success. Even when people are financially stressed, stable marriage can and does dramatically reduce the propensity to engage in crime. Also, the absence of stable marriage dramatically increases the probability of criminal behavior unless people are extremely well off.
Take Trayvon Martin as an example. His mother had a secure, well paying State jobasa housing councilor and owned a modest home. His father was a truck driver with a full time job. The aggregate income of Martin's two parents was well in excess of $100,000 per year. Unfortunately; TM's parents were divorced and his stable relationship with the step mother who raised him was disrupted by his father's relationship with his wife, no fiancé, nope girlfriend, no really she was a whore, Brandi Green. He lived with his mommy fora few years before she kicked him out of the house so she would be free to be a whore. (this was proven by text messages from his phone). Trayvon Martin's dad was such great role model that he was helping his son traffic in illegal guns and drugs. It turns out that daddy didn't drive him to Sanford, he rode the bus with a Kilo brick of pot shoved up his ass. ( also confirmed by his text messages). It seems that Martin actually started the trip twice but got kicked off the bus for "swinging on a bus driver.". Once in Sanford, Martin who was recently suspended for criminal behavior was left on his own so daddy could attend an orgy, excuse me, "Mason convention", actually a Crips gang reunion with his whore, fiancé or whatever.
A younger, more pragmatic Obama who needed to establish his credibility to run for the US Senate then for President masqueraded as a moderate by condemning these pathologies. If his expressed sentiments had been genuine, he might have become a decent President. I will grant Obama some respect on his family values credentials because he has remained married to Michelle without any hint of having women on the side. (having men on the side is another issue which might explain why some of the alleged boyfriends have turned up murderred). Given the fact that Mrs Obama's ass is almost three axe handles wide, that demonstrates commitment.
PeterZ wrote:That's true as far as it goes. The flip side is equally important. One can't pay people to start loving relationships, sure. However, we are seeing that one CAN pay people to have children WITHOUT starting a loving relationship. That is what Namelessfly is speaking to. Encouraging and incentivizing people to bring children into chaotic and dangerous conditions by subsidizing NOT their starting a stable family.
I am all for helping the poor and disadvantaged. Helping doesn't always mean paying. Sometimes, it means not paying. This is one of those times. Our current safety net is a true codependent relationship between government and the poor. Especially blacks.
Donnachaidh wrote:I didn't say they were unrelated, I said the true root cause was economic. That is only true from a solution perspective, the fact is you can't successfully pay people (which is what economic incentives are) to create a loving, supportive household. You can create economic conditions that make it easier for people to create that household but getting people to do that is not something that can be solved economically, it's not that simple. That is a social issue that their community must solve, any solution forced on them from the outside will not be as successful and will cause enormous resentment that will only make the situation worse. Those of us outside of those communities and cultures can only do what we can to encourage economic growth and moral leaders within the community/culture.
From a problem perspective, economic circumstances and family structure feed upon each other both positively and negatively. The only people that can improve the family structure are those within the community/culture. Economic conditions can be influenced some by those outside the community but economics is a tricky thing that we still don't completely have figured out and anything that alters things should be done very carefully.