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Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:18 pm

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Sorry, but that's too...."Oh! John Ringo, No!" for AmblesForApiumGraveolens' writing.

jcochran wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Gwynna will be 18 when she has lived 18 years regardless of what her body looks like. She needs to have an adult body that can withstand the rigors coming her way. With respect to marriage, she won't be old enough to marry until she has lived the requisite number of years however many that is. No spell will allow her to live more years than she has experienced. Her body might mature at a faster rate, but she will have lived only those number of years she experiences.

I would agree with you except that frankly Gwynna already has the emotional maturity to get married right now. She doesn't need an additional 7 years of experience. And when strangers see Kenhodan with Gwynna, they'll see a 30-something with a 20-something instead of with an obvious child. They're gonna have a hard enough problem with her being half-hradani, but given Gwynna's power and competence, along with Bahzeel's example of setting things on end, that issue should be minor.
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by jcochran   » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:40 pm

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The problem I have with the assumption that Gwynna needs an adult body for what she needs to do is that eighteen is such a HUMAN age. Remember that in "The War God's Own", it's mentioned that hradani seldom marry before their late 20's. Kerry, at age 32, would be considered little more than a girl by hradani standards. And considering that she's expected to live longer than a half-elf, eighteen seems a tad young for an "adult body". So in my opinion, the age of eighteen is being targeted for political, not physical reasons.
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by jcochran   » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:35 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Sorry, but that's too...."Oh! John Ringo, No!" for AmblesForApiumGraveolens' writing.

Perhaps.
But I do seem to recall a bit of one-up-man-ship between Lois McMaster Bujold and David Weber involving military science fiction and a prison escape....
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:51 pm

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jcochran wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Sorry, but that's too...."Oh! John Ringo, No!" for AmblesForApiumGraveolens' writing.

Perhaps.
But I do seem to recall a bit of one-up-man-ship between Lois McMaster Bujold and David Weber involving military science fiction and a prison escape....


Sorry but I don't see either trying to compete in that direction. RFC has daughters for Heaven's sake.
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by Morris Darkstar   » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:57 am

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Remember that the impression given of her size is that of a 10 year old human child. And she's likely to be a good bit larger for her biological age at any point in time given Bahzell and his sister's stature. So, 18 years for her may well be the human physical maturity of a 12 year old. And being 12 or so is about the minimum to compete with adults in a physical clash, at least for girls.

Morris

jcochran wrote:The problem I have with the assumption that Gwynna needs an adult body for what she needs to do is that eighteen is such a HUMAN age. Remember that in "The War God's Own", it's mentioned that hradani seldom marry before their late 20's. Kerry, at age 32, would be considered little more than a girl by hradani standards. And considering that she's expected to live longer than a half-elf, eighteen seems a tad young for an "adult body". So in my opinion, the age of eighteen is being targeted for political, not physical reasons.
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by Bahzellstudent   » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:43 am

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I Can't think that her need to get physically older is anything to do with marriage; that may or may not happen in a later book but is I think a sideshow right now. Her major job in book 2 will be as a mage
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by phillies   » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:09 pm

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jcochran wrote:
andrewtater wrote:After Kenhodan is burned by dragon spittle, he had a random thought. "That's going to upset Gwynna." Even Wencit is taken aback by the statement. I think it is less due to Wencit's doting over her and more because he knows what the future has.

... SNIP ....
I don’t think that was a throwaway phrase in for flair. I think this was foreshadowing, implying that Gwynna will wear the necklace, as well as be the future wife of Torren Shieldarm, now known as Kenhodan.


I had a bit of difficulty in determining Gwynna's age, but the inside cover teaser does claim that she's eleven years old. Add that to the little bit of age control Gwynna plans on doing for seven months at a 12 to 1 ratio, that would put her at eighteen or so by the time Bahzeel and company back to Belhadan. And that's a very interesting age indeed. And it seems that there's a deadline for Gwynna to reach age eighteen since when asked "Can't you at least start more slowly, child?" she replied that she could, but at the cost of having to go faster later. The only reason I can think of for Gwynna to get to age 18 by a certain unspecified deadline is for marriage.


Is there some reason to suppose that 18 is of any significance in this culture in terms of marriage? We may contrast with Romeo and Juliet at one end (rather, with Juliet's peers) and with middle-class more or less Germans in the 1632 series at the other end. One might propose alternatively that she will be at full physical size, for some spellcasting or combat issue, except she is half non-human, and I have not heard how long the other half takes to mature physically.
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by Dauntless   » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:11 am

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there is a mention in book 4 (war maid's choice) that one of his sister @ 25 is still in school.

the implication, to me from that and gneral stuff is that a hardni matures about the same speed as human PHYSICALLY but due to their life span is not considered ADult til later.

i.e.from what they've said a human will take up adult duties anywhere after 15.

a hardini given double lifespane somewhere around 30 at aguess.

gwyenna is a mixture but 18 is not unfeasible given her human heritage.
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by dwileye13   » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm

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“You don’t mind I’m only ten?” she asked anxiously. “I’ll be eleven in a few weeks.”

David Weber (2015-08-04T04:00:00+00:00). The Sword of the South - eARC (Kindle Locations 1477-1478). Baen. Kindle Edition.

Gwynna is shooting for 18-19 years old by the time Wencit and crew return to her. I believe the object is to age herself to maximize her power and skills.

Her romantic association with Kenhodan will grow over the term of the War with the Carnadosans and the battles they all fight together. She will be a Lady like her Mother.

I would guess she will be almost 7' tall and beautiful
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: Gwynna and Kenhodan (Sword of the South Spoilers)
Post by andrewtater   » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:32 pm

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phillies wrote:Is there some reason to suppose that 18 is of any significance in this culture in terms of marriage? We may contrast with Romeo and Juliet at one end (rather, with Juliet's peers) and with middle-class more or less Germans in the 1632 series at the other end. One might propose alternatively that she will be at full physical size, for some spellcasting or combat issue, except she is half non-human, and I have not heard how long the other half takes to mature physically.


In WMC, Leeana says that men are considered "adults" at their 18th birthday and women on their 21st. Granted, this is the Sothoii, but it is likely that 18 is also the age of adulthood throughout Norfressa, aside from Saramantha, the Land of Purple Lords, and the various Hradradi lands.

Also, I agree that she isn't targeting 18 for political or social reasons, but for physical ones. My theory is that her 12 year old body can't do what she needs it to do. She will lose some fine control over her mage powers with age-control, but she likely won't lose any of the power, and with a body that can channel it (say, 18 years old), she can access even more than she can now.
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