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Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question

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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sun May 03, 2015 7:28 am

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Apparently that's David Weber's plan.

The earlier books were the "Bahzell Cycle".

This is the first book of the "Kenhodan Cycle".


Brom O'Berin wrote:I get the feeling that this cycle may be Wencit's, Kenhodan's and Gwynna's stories, with Bahzell and Leanna now in supporting roles ... ala Aral and Cordelia Vorkosigan when "young" Miles came into his own.

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Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by NervousEnergy   » Mon May 04, 2015 10:38 pm

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Duncan_Macdonald wrote:Very unlikely that the cat eyed wizard is Herrik given the following from Chapter 11.

Quote

For the last hundred years, since the cat-eyed wizard had assumed leadership of the Council, the old wild wizard had been monitored literally hour by hour.

End Quote

If Herrik had still been alive then he would have been the Council leader much earlier than 100 years ago.

kalenath wrote:I don't think Herrik managed to enjoy his victory. Even if Toren didn't kill him, the strafing probably did.

But OMG...

I THOUGHT I had an inkling. I didn't.

This is gonna get MESSY.

Not sure why that would prove it wasn't Herrik. Toren is obviously alive now, and (we assume) wasn't alive for all of the 13 centuries between now and his death in the Fall of Kontovar. We have no idea at the moment what the mechanism is behind his return, but if Toren is back then we can't assume Herrik isn't either.

Though I'll admit the phrasing doesn't lend itself to the cat eye'd wizard being Herrik. He refers to some prophecy that seems to guarantee 'his line' will win in the end, implying he's a scion of the house of Ottovar but may be several generations removed from the Fall.
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by ericth   » Tue May 05, 2015 1:25 pm

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I'm hoping barflies can help me locating some prior RFC statements about Wencit and wild wizards that I haven't been able to find.

I seem to recall RFC mentioning in the past roughly how old Wencit is. IIRC he was 300 or so when Kontovar fell, which would make him only 1600 now. I also vaguely recall a reference to wild wizards living thousands of years before their power declined (it might have been a reference to Ottovar) and was hoping to reconcile them.

In addition, I've been speculating about the exact nature of Kenhodan. I suspect he's a contemporary descendant of Toren, and that made him eligible for the double occupancy, but I suspect Toren hasnt been with him his whole life or else dormant most of the time. Toren and Wencit obviously set it up to where his spirit either became active or shot forward to where certain conditions were met.
Kenhodan's scars match what one would expect of someone continuously fighting the way Toren was, but his apparent age plus his knowledge of general Norfressan conditions imply a contemporary existence.
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed May 06, 2015 2:48 am

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ericth wrote:I'm hoping barflies can help me locating some prior RFC statements about Wencit and wild wizards that I haven't been able to find.

I seem to recall RFC mentioning in the past roughly how old Wencit is. IIRC he was 300 or so when Kontovar fell, which would make him only 1600 now. I also vaguely recall a reference to wild wizards living thousands of years before their power declined (it might have been a reference to Ottovar) and was hoping to reconcile them.

In addition, I've been speculating about the exact nature of Kenhodan. I suspect he's a contemporary descendant of Toren, and that made him eligible for the double occupancy, but I suspect Toren hasnt been with him his whole life or else dormant most of the time. Toren and Wencit obviously set it up to where his spirit either became active or shot forward to where certain conditions were met.
Kenhodan's scars match what one would expect of someone continuously fighting the way Toren was, but his apparent age plus his knowledge of general Norfressan conditions imply a contemporary existence.



Yes, they do, don't they? :twisted: :lol:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by dan92677   » Wed May 06, 2015 4:10 am

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runsforcelery wrote:
Yes, they do, don't they? :twisted: :lol:



rfc,

Mr. Weber, sometimes you are just really evil!!! (In a nice way, of course!)

Dan
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by Brom O'Berin   » Wed May 06, 2015 5:12 pm

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I had not seen those references, but have only sparingly been lurking for the past year. My introduction to the two planned cycles, if anything other than Bahzell or War God's series/cycles were as "Norfressa" and "Kontovar" cycles - more than a decade ago ...


DrakBibliophile wrote:Apparently that's David Weber's plan.

The earlier books were the "Bahzell Cycle".

This is the first book of the "Kenhodan Cycle".


Brom O'Berin wrote:I get the feeling that this cycle may be Wencit's, Kenhodan's and Gwynna's stories, with Bahzell and Leanna now in supporting roles ... ala Aral and Cordelia Vorkosigan when "young" Miles came into his own.

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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by Nick   » Thu May 07, 2015 3:45 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:
ericth wrote:...snip...
Kenhodan's scars match what one would expect of someone continuously fighting the way Toren was, but his apparent age plus his knowledge of general Norfressan conditions imply a contemporary existence.



Yes, they do, don't they? :twisted: :lol:


Evil much? :roll: I read the e-arc and can testify to this. But what I found even more evil was all the foreshadowing that DIDN'T come true. I was fairly convinced by about the middle of the book that one particular character wouldn't be surviving the book, and I have little doubt that it was intentional. Mind you I'm not complaining about either the foreshadowing or the character's continued breathing, or anything else really. The book was excellent. Well, maybe one complaint. At the end of the book was the torture of knowing that now I have to wait for the next book to get more answers! And while I want these answers, I'm also quite ready for the next Safehold book, the next Honorverse book, the next Empire of Man book ... :)

Patience is good for the soul, right? Something like that. Many thanks for continuing to provide such enjoyable stories! The wait is always worth it.
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by dan92677   » Thu May 07, 2015 9:33 pm

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I personally think that you have it all wrong.

We have four (4) more books of more of the same!!!!

Wonderfully exquisite torture, isn't it?

I sincerely hope that I'm around that long, as I'm in my low 70's now. However, my health is reasonably good, so far (thank you Lord).
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by jchilds   » Thu May 07, 2015 11:58 pm

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“Shekarū, Herrik!” He screamed. “Ottar shen Cleres! Ottar ken Toren!”


"[No idea, possibly something impolite ;) ], Herrik!" He screamed. "(I am) Ottar, grandson of Cleres, son of Toren!" would be my guess...

PS - Anybody get a tart count for this book?
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Re: Big Spoiler for Sword of the South and a Question
Post by runsforcelery   » Sat May 09, 2015 12:37 pm

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jchilds wrote:
“Shekarū, Herrik!” He screamed. “Ottar shen Cleres! Ottar ken Toren!”


"[No idea, possibly something impolite ;) ], Herrik!" He screamed. "(I am) Ottar, grandson of Cleres, son of Toren!" would be my guess...

PS - Anybody get a tart count for this book?



I make it 1 "tart" and 13 "tartly"s in 198,000 words total. :P :P Bearing in mind, of course, that Word counts dashes and elipses as words. Also asterisks if spaced.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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