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What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by ericth   » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:19 pm

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Soooo... since barflies have so much time to speculate these days, I thought I'd throw one out.

Borrowing plot elements from Sword Brother and Safehold, set in the Bazhell universe.

Let's say a contemporary US infantry trooper ends up in Norfressa. A bit like Ken Houghton in Sword Brother but not just a brief trip.

He decides to help the good guys, and is sufficiently versed in how firearms work to provide the Empire of the Axe a substantial leg up as a technical advisor. (at least he doesnt have an Proscriptions to deal with :-)

What should he concentrate on?

I foresee three major possibilities:
1) infantry small arms
2) crew served infantry weapons
3) artillery or other heavy weapons.

Some design considerations:
1) The enemy will operate in close order formation (at least initially)
2) Armored or otherwise very tough enemy troopers. Humans are the *least* tough, with Hradani, demons, and the like being much tougher.
3) Even the dwarven industry isnt fully adapted to mass production yet.
4) Transporting munitions from the empire to the front will be a significant challenge.

To open the discussion, I submit the following:
1) Infantry small arms:
Advantages: Individual soldiers have greatly increased long range capability.
Disadvantages:
a) Industrial load: this probably places the greatest strain on manufacturing and logistics. Tens of thousands of rifles and millions of rounds of ammo need to be produced and supported.
b) Armor pen: given that a battle rifle round like the NATO 7.62 is likely to be marginal against Hradani, let alone tougher opponents, a heavy caliber with good armor penetration is called for, increasing the bulk and weight of the soldier's kit, not to mention industrial requirements.

2) Crew served infantry weapons:
Advantages:
a) Production of weapons is a fraction of that required for rifles. Ammo requirements unchanged.
b) Training requirements are reduced, heavy weapons squads integrate into existing unit structure.
c) Easier to use heavier calibers with greater armor pen for stuff like demons.
Disadvantages:
a) Reduced mobility. Units out of range of a heavy weapon are at a major disadvantage.
b) Provides a clear target for the enemy to attack for max results.

3) Artillery or other heavy weapons:
Advantages:
a) Greatest armor pen for beasties like demons with hard carapaces. If a lesser demon takes a modern 25mm AP round, serious mojo is called for.
b) Training requirements are reduced, heavy weapons squads integrate into existing unit structure.
c) Likely greatest range from fortified emplacements, even in direct fire mode.
d) Possibly lower industrial demands for ammunition compared to millions of rifle rounds.
Disadvantages:
a) Most industrial strain in weapons manufacture. See Safehold books wrt designing artillery and recoil systems and proper shells.
b) Least mobility and most difficult to transport.

Discussion?
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by Eagleeye   » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:43 am

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That's already discussed by David himself (in a way, at least) It's called "Safehold-Series" ...
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by ericth   » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:08 am

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Location: USA

Eagleeye wrote:That's already discussed by David himself (in a way, at least) It's called "Safehold-Series" ...


I did reference the safehold series in the original post. Norfressa would have somewhat different constraints, however. No proscriptions to evade, but limited industrial power, a fairly limited time to prepare, and not having a library computer. Not to mention the dark wizards almost certainly seeing what was going on even if they didnt quite understand what it was.
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by FriarBob   » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:36 pm

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Posts: 1049
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ericth wrote:
Eagleeye wrote:That's already discussed by David himself (in a way, at least) It's called "Safehold-Series" ...


I did reference the safehold series in the original post. Norfressa would have somewhat different constraints, however. No proscriptions to evade, but limited industrial power, a fairly limited time to prepare, and not having a library computer. Not to mention the dark wizards almost certainly seeing what was going on even if they didnt quite understand what it was.


We've also got some of that too. It's called "Sword Brother". The wizards didn't have a clue what the guns were doing, they just knew they had turned their plans quite topsy turvy.

But here's why NONE of this will happen: scrying spells. Short of Wencit spending all his time maintaining a glamour over the production facility, any actual physical process the Dwarves/advisors/etc bring in that is THIS game-changing WILL be stolen by the opposing wizards. And they will be able to steal it and use it, because all the processes in question will rely on natural physical laws which both sides can take advantage of.

At which point it becomes nothing more than sheer numbers vs. sheer numbers, and the whole series becomes completely pointless.

And if Wencit spends himself maintaining the glamour, he can't spend the time necessary to take care of the black and/or "dingy gray" wizards in his own backyard. Or any of a hundred other things far more important and far more likely to win the war.

Oh, coming from a technological society with at least an armchair understanding of technological warfare WE would think differently. But Wencit wouldn't.
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by Rakhmamort   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:01 am

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FriarBob wrote:We've also got some of that too. It's called "Sword Brother". The wizards didn't have a clue what the guns were doing, they just knew they had turned their plans quite topsy turvy.

But here's why NONE of this will happen: scrying spells. Short of Wencit spending all his time maintaining a glamour over the production facility, any actual physical process the Dwarves/advisors/etc bring in that is THIS game-changing WILL be stolen by the opposing wizards. And they will be able to steal it and use it, because all the processes in question will rely on natural physical laws which both sides can take advantage of.

At which point it becomes nothing more than sheer numbers vs. sheer numbers, and the whole series becomes completely pointless.

And if Wencit spends himself maintaining the glamour, he can't spend the time necessary to take care of the black and/or "dingy gray" wizards in his own backyard. Or any of a hundred other things far more important and far more likely to win the war.

Oh, coming from a technological society with at least an armchair understanding of technological warfare WE would think differently. But Wencit wouldn't.


They won't even need to steal from the manufacturing plant. A group with a wizard powerful enough can overrun a sleeping detachment carrying the new weapons.
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:58 am

Michael Everett
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Posts: 2498
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:54 am
Location: Bristol, England

Warning!
This is starting to sound like potential Honorverse fanfiction, regarding which the Mad Wizard Weber has some minor issues to due to the negative experiences of certain other authors who found themselves sued over rights and concepts relating to their work.

On a related note, it would seem that Weber doesn't mind fanfic in general, given that his lovely wife Sharon agreed to be cameo'd in a certain story...

As for the advanced human in a less-developed society" idea, I did write this story based on that concept a decade or so ago...
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
Animal Crossing Dreams at 6E00-00F5-2891
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by Guardiandashi   » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:35 pm

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I honestly don't know, of course the one that IMO would make a absolutely hilarious story if rather short... would be another crossover type story, with chars from one of his other novels... I submit the Alpha Synth Megarea, and Alecia DeVreis, vs some totally bad news Deamon... and when Megarea finds out all the nastiness that is coming from the other Continent... she takes a look and drops a few HVM's on a few strategic looking sites.... and turns them into craters, and the Wizards wouldn't even know what happened.
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by Thirdbase   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:35 am

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Posts: 2186
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:27 pm

ericth wrote:Soooo... since barflies have so much time to speculate these days, I thought I'd throw one out.

Borrowing plot elements from Sword Brother and Safehold, set in the Bazhell universe.

Let's say a contemporary US infantry trooper ends up in Norfressa. A bit like Ken Houghton in Sword Brother but not just a brief trip.

He decides to help the good guys, and is sufficiently versed in how firearms work to provide the Empire of the Axe a substantial leg up as a technical advisor. (at least he doesnt have an Proscriptions to deal with :-)

What should he concentrate on?

I foresee three major possibilities:
1) infantry small arms
2) crew served infantry weapons
3) artillery or other heavy weapons.

Some design considerations:
1) The enemy will operate in close order formation (at least initially)
2) Armored or otherwise very tough enemy troopers. Humans are the *least* tough, with Hradani, demons, and the like being much tougher.
3) Even the dwarven industry isnt fully adapted to mass production yet.
4) Transporting munitions from the empire to the front will be a significant challenge.

To open the discussion, I submit the following:
1) Infantry small arms:
Advantages: Individual soldiers have greatly increased long range capability.
Disadvantages:
a) Industrial load: this probably places the greatest strain on manufacturing and logistics. Tens of thousands of rifles and millions of rounds of ammo need to be produced and supported.
b) Armor pen: given that a battle rifle round like the NATO 7.62 is likely to be marginal against Hradani, let alone tougher opponents, a heavy caliber with good armor penetration is called for, increasing the bulk and weight of the soldier's kit, not to mention industrial requirements.

2) Crew served infantry weapons:
Advantages:
a) Production of weapons is a fraction of that required for rifles. Ammo requirements unchanged.
b) Training requirements are reduced, heavy weapons squads integrate into existing unit structure.
c) Easier to use heavier calibers with greater armor pen for stuff like demons.
Disadvantages:
a) Reduced mobility. Units out of range of a heavy weapon are at a major disadvantage.
b) Provides a clear target for the enemy to attack for max results.

3) Artillery or other heavy weapons:
Advantages:
a) Greatest armor pen for beasties like demons with hard carapaces. If a lesser demon takes a modern 25mm AP round, serious mojo is called for.
b) Training requirements are reduced, heavy weapons squads integrate into existing unit structure.
c) Likely greatest range from fortified emplacements, even in direct fire mode.
d) Possibly lower industrial demands for ammunition compared to millions of rifle rounds.
Disadvantages:
a) Most industrial strain in weapons manufacture. See Safehold books wrt designing artillery and recoil systems and proper shells.
b) Least mobility and most difficult to transport.

Discussion?


Assuming he has the technical expertise in all those areas, explain the advantages and disadvantages and then let them decide which to make.
------------
runsforcelery wrote:
Thirdbase wrote:I think that was the next novel.



Allow me to demonstrate my concision, brevity, and economy of phrase:

"Smart alec!" ;p
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:28 am

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Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 12:37 am

I actually had a different vision of a mashup.
One of Fiendark's priests with more ego than skill actually gets a hold of one of Tomnak's Champions and thinks " oh goodie, I can really raise a powerful fury... "
He starts the sacrifice during which the champion, needing to be conscious in order to appreciate the pain, is also praying for justice. The both get what they asked for when Alicia de'Vries and company arrive... :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: What if based on mashup of RFC story universes.
Post by jchilds   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:15 pm

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Hradani drop commandoes...
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