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SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )

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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Graydon   » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:17 pm

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jsburbidge wrote:The snippet leans pretty heavily on how mature Leeana's affect is compared to her appearance (and there's that rank as well, which she presumably achieved before Gwynna was born); Occam's Razor as applied to indications of authorial intent would suggest that the most likely answer is that she's been given an extended lifespan to match Bahzell's (foreseen by the gods, not necessarily full-length for a Hradani dying in bed) life.


Wencit, lonely, yet-haunted Wencit, pretty much promised to kill himself over magical attacks on Leeana.

The more I think about that, the odder it seems. It marks Leeana as ridiculously important. It tells the minions of the Dark Gods that Wencit (at least) knows Leeana is ridiculously important.

Istvaria is in charge of mortality.

Bahzell is, not disposable, but a stalking horse; keeping Bahzell alive has never been an especially major priority on the part of the Gods of Light. They're not trying to get him killed, but it's clear their plans can function if Bahzell does get killed.

It looks like Their plans don't function (or not nearly so well) if Leeana gets killed.

So perhaps the important thing about Gwynna is that Leeana's her mother, in the line-of-descent sense; Bahzell's useful, handy, this might be the optimal outcome, but if the essential thing is one of Leeana's kids Istvaria may have Leeana's mortality in abeyance, because, hey, Gwynna might not make it; we might need another one.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:32 pm

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Graydon wrote:
jsburbidge wrote:The snippet leans pretty heavily on how mature Leeana's affect is compared to her appearance (and there's that rank as well, which she presumably achieved before Gwynna was born); Occam's Razor as applied to indications of authorial intent would suggest that the most likely answer is that she's been given an extended lifespan to match Bahzell's (foreseen by the gods, not necessarily full-length for a Hradani dying in bed) life.


Wencit, lonely, yet-haunted Wencit, pretty much promised to kill himself over magical attacks on Leeana.

The more I think about that, the odder it seems. It marks Leeana as ridiculously important. It tells the minions of the Dark Gods that Wencit (at least) knows Leeana is ridiculously important.

Istvaria is in charge of mortality.

Bahzell is, not disposable, but a stalking horse; keeping Bahzell alive has never been an especially major priority on the part of the Gods of Light. They're not trying to get him killed, but it's clear their plans can function if Bahzell does get killed.

It looks like Their plans don't function (or not nearly so well) if Leeana gets killed.

So perhaps the important thing about Gwynna is that Leeana's her mother, in the line-of-descent sense; Bahzell's useful, handy, this might be the optimal outcome, but if the essential thing is one of Leeana's kids Istvaria may have Leeana's mortality in abeyance, because, hey, Gwynna might not make it; we might need another one.


Or if Leeana is somehow changed by a sorcerous attack. Perhaps the God's of Light require Wizardry to disappear. A sorcerous attack on Leeana might trigger her Gift to manifest. If that happens, Leeana might well use the Art to defeat the Dark in this battle but keep Wizardry alive for the Dark to use to tempt more people later. Her progeny would be the new Wizard Lords of Norfressa. Stronger and longer lived than the old imperial line. What sorts of magical effort would it take to make her children fertile if those changes are not already present in Gwynna? I do suspect Gwynna is fertile or will be when she matures.

There are too many ways RFC can play Leeana's centrality to the story and Wencit's threat to the Carnadosans.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by jsburbidge   » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:53 pm

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Graydon wrote: That's not to say I don't think Leanna didn't impress, but I think there might not have been any particular effort to promote or otherwise reward. Leanna (and the King, we know this is a politic king) would have wanted any rewards to be general to the War Maids, and given the unprecedented, eye-widening scale of the divine rewards, it's quite possible the mortal authorities may have concluded that, well, that's taken care of, not our place to medle, oh no it is not.


I could see an immediate small promotion, along with a reposting at that time; but I can't see fast promotion beyond that.

The biggest argument for a compressed timeline is the comment by Vaijon's shade which can be read to suggest fairly immediate parenthood, but that could very easily be authorial misdirection.

Graydon wrote:Weber might be clever, but Bahzell won't be, not given the audience.

Note that the tavern is obviously established, it's not new, it's got a routine and a storage room full of valuable oddments and regulars and local customs and a diverse clientele who don't seem surprised by anything.

What we're seeing is a considerable span of time.


Not to mention that, IIRC, Weber originally intended to write a couple more Bahzell Novels before getting to this point.

One thing to note is that if there has been a forty or more year gap since WMC, Kenhodan cannot be the boy Bahzell rescued; he'd be a greybeard by now. In fact, he can't be anyone we've met before.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by dan92677   » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:49 pm

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I agree. As rfc has been described, I would imagine that the two missing books do exist as an outline, somewhere. I'm sure that there was at least one battle per book for Leeana to have been involved in, thus the promotions. I'm also curious about the necklace that she wears, Marcos gift of appreciation, perhaps?...
Plus, we all seem to agree that she would be the logical representative to the Realms assembly. That might also be worth a promotion. The intervening period would also explain the direcat, too, I imagine
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Graydon   » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:54 pm

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jsburbidge wrote:One thing to note is that if there has been a forty or more year gap since WMC, Kenhodan cannot be the boy Bahzell rescued; he'd be a greybeard by now. In fact, he can't be anyone we've met before.


Nor could that boy have learnt an excellent command of the same Kontovaran sword-style Wencit uses. (Bahzell gives Wencit a clear opportunity to fess up if Wencit's been moonlighting as an swordmaster. Wencit goes bland.)

So, yeah, this is someone new.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Morris Darkstar   » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:27 am

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No, but I think it's an indication that Kenhodan was someone Wencit knew from the time of or slightly before the fall. (As he said, he's been waiting.)

Although it being Vaijon in a new body would be a very cool story too. Although, in that case, I suspect that Bahzell would recognize his style. Not to mention that Vaijon's technique leaned very strongly on using his shield, he'd feel naked w/o a strong shield to go with the sword, IMO.

Graydon wrote:Nor could that boy have learnt an excellent command of the same Kontovaran sword-style Wencit uses. (Bahzell gives Wencit a clear opportunity to fess up if Wencit's been moonlighting as an swordmaster. Wencit goes bland.)

So, yeah, this is someone new.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:13 am

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Morris Darkstar wrote:Although it being Vaijon in a new body ...


I wonder how Vaijon is taking to being an eleven-year-old half-hradani girl? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by jsburbidge   » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:23 am

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Graydon wrote:Wencit, lonely, yet-haunted Wencit, pretty much promised to kill himself over magical attacks on Leeana.

The more I think about that, the odder it seems. It marks Leeana as ridiculously important. It tells the minions of the Dark Gods that Wencit (at least) knows Leeana is ridiculously important.


That did strike me as very odd. The obvious response would be to send a thousand non-sorcerous assassins after her (preferably not dog-brothers, or anybody with visible connections to Kontovar), one at a time, until somebody succeeded. You can't watch your back all the time.

Of course, there might be a significant reluctance to do anything that might significantly Piss Wencit Off, after that warning.

It's also possible that the Dark Gods have a perfectly good understanding of how important Leeana is -- or would have one in any case after the events of WMC -- so that Wencit isn't giving anything away.

Graydon wrote:It looks like Their plans don't function (or not nearly so well) if Leeana gets killed.


Maybe it's just Wencit's plans for which Leeana is so critical. He has more insight into what's going on than anyone else, but he's not a spokesman for the gods, and he's said himself that they have a much more complete understanding of all the possibilities. (The little chat with Isvaria didn't sound as though the timing of Leeana's death was all that critical.)

On a re-read of the passage in WMC regarding Wencit's not re-establishing White Wizardry, it's fairly clear that the view that he's trying to get rid of wizardry altogether is an interpretation by (some of) the magi of his reasons for storing his library with them and not training any new white wizards; Wencit's plans could very well centre around appropriate time and place for re-establishing it, and Leeana / Gwynna may be critical to that project.

That being said, extending Leeana's lifespan (and childbearing years) may have served more functions than just allowing Bahzell not to have to cope with an early (for him) death from old age of his wife -- notably having Gwynna at her current age at this particular point in time, rather than decades earlier.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Louis R   » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:34 pm

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What evidence is there at this point that Gwynna is an only child? Hmmm?

Just because there's no brother in the kitchen doesn't mean there isn't one up at the Chapter House, or down on the Spear, or...

Doesn't mean that there is, of course, but in the text so far, there's been no reason for such a person to be mentioned.

jsburbidge wrote:
I could see an immediate small promotion, along with a reposting at that time; but I can't see fast promotion beyond that.

The biggest argument for a compressed timeline is the comment by Vaijon's shade which can be read to suggest fairly immediate parenthood, but that could very easily be authorial misdirection.

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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by tootall   » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:32 am

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Louis R was unkind enough to say:
"What evidence is there at this point that Gwynna is an only child? Hmmm?"

We think that because...because... because we're conclusion jumpers!! That's why!
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