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SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Cartref   » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:51 pm

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[quote="WLBjork"]David, make no apologies for dealing with the important things in your life. Health and family come before snippets.
quote]

Totally and 100% agree. Family and your own health and sanity comes first, all else after.

Still, glad with any snippet you deliver however long it may take :lol:
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by merlenglas   » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:58 pm

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Thank you for the snippet. I enjoyed it immensely. Remembering my childhood and my time with my own children, do not worry about the length of time. Only the gods know how we made it through. Life does have a way of reminding us that it is the important thing. ;)
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Bahzellstudent   » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:44 pm

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David - thanks for this; loving the shape these snippets are taking.

And - as others have said - absolutely right to put you, the family, and the house first (but do get that ISP sorted!)
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Graydon   » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:18 pm

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WLBjork wrote:Brom, I'd go with the touch of the Gods myself - after all, they blessed the marriage, and I can see them tweaking Leena's lifetime to give her longer with Bazhell.


Direct touch of the gods seems plausible, yeah.

I find myself wondering that if Wencit's been waiting for 1300 years for Kenhodan and the Fall was 1200 years ago when the series opened, have Bahzel and Leanna outlived their companion Coursers?
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by jsburbidge   » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:32 am

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Establishing the timeframe: Gwynna is eleven years old, according to the blurb, Leeana was 21 at the time of War Maid's Choice, WMC takes place seven years after WRO, and the previous time since the beginning of OoS is on the order of two to three years. At minimum twenty years at minimum has passed since the beginning of OoS, and very likely more.

There are three points at which one could slot in an episode in which Brandark acquires the sword:

(1) After WMC, in which case Leeana would be 60 or so -- or more, since there's no ceiling on this -- and Gwynna would have been born in her late forties or later -- numbers which make sense for Hradani but not so much for ordinary humans. One argument in favour of this is the low fertility rates for Hradani, which would make a longer gap between the marriage and Gwynna's birth more probable. The only answer to that on Leeana's side, though, is something on the order of god-touched. It would be consonant with the impression of a highly unusual degree of maturity, which is a strong argument in favour of this explanation. (Another argument in favour is Leeana's relatively high rank; this gives her plenty of time to have achieved it.)

(2) An unrecorded episode during the voyage to Belhadan between OoS and TWGO -- possible given the reference to a corsair -- in which case we have to assume that Leeana is about fifty and looks much younger, and that Gwynna was born when she was about thirty-nine or forty. The argument from a greater than visible degree of maturity still stands.

(3) An unrecorded episode of Bahzell and Brandark cooperating years before Bahzell's hostage status, no more than twenty years before the beginning of OoS and more likely about fifteen, in which case Gwynna would have been born when Leeana was in her mid-to-late twenties. (The fact that Leeana is a commander of a thousand implies some more extended service before retiring to raise a child.) There's nothing preventing this from having been the case, although I'd have to consider it a mild case of retconning. Note that Weber does have a record of mild insertion of later themes into earlier stories in the Honorverse context. The biggest problem with this option is that it's fairly clear that they hadn't seen the sea before OoS and the "corsair" would have to have come rather far inland. The other point is that it makes all the references to her unusual maturity red herrings.

AFAIK Brandark's sword was never described during the previous volumes, and it's an open question as to whether the Bahzell of the early years would have recognized a Gryphon Guard sword; but Brandark is a whole other question. The probability is still that it was acquired later rather than earlier.

In either of (1) or (2) you need some sort of intervention to explain Leeana's apparent age, but that's already hinted at in the repeated notes about her unusual maturity.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by RHWoodman   » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:08 pm

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Thanks for a most interesting snippet, David.
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Graydon   » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:26 pm

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jsburbidge wrote:(3) An unrecorded episode of Bahzell and Brandark cooperating years before Bahzell's hostage status, no more than twenty years before the beginning of OoS and more likely about fifteen


I don't think that can work because Bahzell and Brandark are very young, just barely at the age of responsibility, when OoS opens. (If Hradani-equivalent 12 year-olds took a sword off a corsair and got home intact, it would be talked about.)
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Louis R   » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:19 pm

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I have to agree with you on this. Not just for that reason, but because OoS makes it fairly clear that a) the two met when Bahzell arrived in Navahk and b) Brandark hadn't traveled anywhere before that. The wording is just open enough that a) isn't certain, but the balance of the evidence is strongly in favour of it.

Graydon wrote:
jsburbidge wrote:(3) An unrecorded episode of Bahzell and Brandark cooperating years before Bahzell's hostage status, no more than twenty years before the beginning of OoS and more likely about fifteen


I don't think that can work because Bahzell and Brandark are very young, just barely at the age of responsibility, when OoS opens. (If Hradani-equivalent 12 year-olds took a sword off a corsair and got home intact, it would be talked about.)
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Louis R   » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:40 pm

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Hard to say, but they seem too, umm... cheerful for either of the coursers to be gone. Of course, Gayrfressa is about 10 years younger than Leanna, and her brother no more than Leanna's age, so they'd still have some time on their clocks anyway.

I think that what we've learned about Bahzell's current position, while not exactly answering any of the _other_ open questions, confirms that the Gods of Light are up to their metaphorical ears in whatever's going on. And that they've chosen to mangle the rules of mortality to promote it. In fact, I'm expecting Himself to wade in shortly and perhaps drop an explanation or two while confusing the issue even more thoroughly.

Graydon wrote:
WLBjork wrote:Brom, I'd go with the touch of the Gods myself - after all, they blessed the marriage, and I can see them tweaking Leena's lifetime to give her longer with Bazhell.


Direct touch of the gods seems plausible, yeah.

I find myself wondering that if Wencit's been waiting for 1300 years for Kenhodan and the Fall was 1200 years ago when the series opened, have Bahzel and Leanna outlived their companion Coursers?
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Re: SotS Official Snippet #9 (I think )
Post by Vince   » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:51 pm

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Keep in mind that the snippets come from the first draft, the equivalent of the E-ARC. So errors can creep in, to be weeded out in the editing process.
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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