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SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)

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SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by Knightfire   » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:13 pm

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I found this old data dump from a David Weber Post to Baen's Bar. Don't know if this has been discussed but it has some cool information. Gives a lot of information about the Fall of Kontovar and describes what the Sword of the South is.

Here is the link: http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... essa/226/0

After reading it, I think the swordsman without a memory in Bahzell's inn is Toren, the last emperor.

Also lots of cool information Coursers and other background information.
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:45 pm

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Knightfire wrote:I found this old data dump from a David Weber Post to Baen's Bar. Don't know if this has been discussed but it has some cool information. Gives a lot of information about the Fall of Kontovar and describes what the Sword of the South is.

Here is the link: http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... essa/226/0

After reading it, I think the swordsman without a memory in Bahzell's inn is Toren, the last emperor.

Also lots of cool information Coursers and other background information.

Don't think so for several reasons. From the info dump
In the end, Toren and his forces were simply overwhelmed. In the final battle, Toren and Herrick faced one another directly in hand-to-hand combat. Ultimately, Toren could not possibly have won the fight, since he was effectively the last member of his last army still on his feet. In the event, the battle between them -- which involved another artifact of the House of Ottovar [tum, te, tum, te, tum] -- not only dropped both of them but killed almost every man (and creature) of the army Herrick had brought to the ball, as well. Unfortunately, the Carnadosans still had several armies left, and Toren's had been the last army the Good Guys™ had.

My bolding - this indicates that both Toren and Herrick are dead. if the dropped does not indicate that they have died, and I'll admit the possibility - remember the mortal wound to Hector in LAMA, the question then becomes what happened to Herrick? At this time I believe that the textev is that there is only one wild wizard in the world - Wencit.
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by Eagleeye   » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:42 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote:At this time I believe that the textev is that there is only one wild wizard in the world - Wencit.


I disagree, at least if I understand the blurb of SoftS correctly:
Blurb of SoftS wrote:Wulfra of Torfo doesn't know those answers, either, but she does know Wencit of Rūm is her implacable foe and that somehow Kenhodan is one of the weapons he intends to use against her . . . assuming she can't kill both of them first.

What else can Wulfra be, aside of a goddess, of course, if not another wild wizard (or is it, in her case, a wild sorceress?) Who else would've a fighting chance against Wencit?
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by Sharidann   » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:34 am

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Knightfire wrote:I found this old data dump from a David Weber Post to Baen's Bar. Don't know if this has been discussed but it has some cool information. Gives a lot of information about the Fall of Kontovar and describes what the Sword of the South is.

Here is the link: http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... essa/226/0

After reading it, I think the swordsman without a memory in Bahzell's inn is Toren, the last emperor.

Also lots of cool information Coursers and other background information.


What is your understanding of what the Sword of the South is ?

I don't see any explanation of its powers anywhere.
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:32 am

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No "wand" wizard has a fighting chance against Wencit in one-on-one combat.

But Wencit *will not* kill non-wizards via magic so a wand wizard could win by putting Wencit in a position of having to get through non-wizards before he can go one-on-one with the wand wizard.

So Wulfra of Torfo could be a wand wizard and part of her concern about Kenhodan is that he's a very good swordsman.

Kenhodan will support Wencit when Wencit is trying to get past the non-wizards that she is using to kill Wencit.


Eagleeye wrote:
I disagree, at least if I understand the blurb of SoftS correctly:
Blurb of SoftS wrote:Wulfra of Torfo doesn't know those answers, either, but she does know Wencit of Rūm is her implacable foe and that somehow Kenhodan is one of the weapons he intends to use against her . . . assuming she can't kill both of them first.

What else can Wulfra be, aside of a goddess, of course, if not another wild wizard (or is it, in her case, a wild sorceress?) Who else would've a fighting chance against Wencit?
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by biochem   » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:47 am

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Wencit usually challenges the wand wizards to a duel arcane by some variant of Fight a duel with me or must I slay you where you stand? Knowing that as a wand wizard the chance of winning combat is zero, if I were a wand wizard I'd try the second option. He probably would slay me where I stood, but killing someone standing there completely unresisting is an entirely different thing than killing him/her in combat so he just might not....
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by akira.taylor   » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:04 pm

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biochem wrote:Wencit usually challenges the wand wizards to a duel arcane by some variant of Fight a duel with me or must I slay you where you stand? Knowing that as a wand wizard the chance of winning combat is zero, if I were a wand wizard I'd try the second option. He probably would slay me where I stood, but killing someone standing there completely unresisting is an entirely different thing than killing him/her in combat so he just might not....


Once he issues his challenge, he will kill the Dark Wizard. In Oath of Swords, he issues that challenge to the two Dark Wizards that have... the lady he's rescuing. One attacks him, he says "So be it," and kills them. The other gibbers in fear, he says "So be it," and kills them. (I may be a little off on details, but that was the gist.)

Really, the "fight or die where you stand" line isn't a challenge, it's a passing of sentence. ("I'm killing you - easy way or hard way?")
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:06 pm

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akira.taylor wrote:
biochem wrote:Wencit usually challenges the wand wizards to a duel arcane by some variant of Fight a duel with me or must I slay you where you stand? Knowing that as a wand wizard the chance of winning combat is zero, if I were a wand wizard I'd try the second option. He probably would slay me where I stood, but killing someone standing there completely unresisting is an entirely different thing than killing him/her in combat so he just might not....


Once he issues his challenge, he will kill the Dark Wizard. In Oath of Swords, he issues that challenge to the two Dark Wizards that have... the lady he's rescuing. One attacks him, he says "So be it," and kills them. The other gibbers in fear, he says "So be it," and kills them. (I may be a little off on details, but that was the gist.)

Really, the "fight or die where you stand" line isn't a challenge, it's a passing of sentence. ("I'm killing you - easy way or hard way?")

In a duel arcane, the weaker party is given first strike, and Wencit always gives the other side the opportunity to strike first - which he parries, and then offs his opponent.
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:38 pm

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Knightfire wrote:I found this old data dump from a David Weber Post to Baen's Bar. Don't know if this has been discussed but it has some cool information. Gives a lot of information about the Fall of Kontovar and describes what the Sword of the South is.

Here is the link: http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... essa/226/0

After reading it, I think the swordsman without a memory in Bahzell's inn is Toren, the last emperor.

Also lots of cool information Coursers and other background information.

In point of fact it is that blurb that convinces me that it is not Toren.
In the end, Toren and his forces were simply overwhelmed. In the final battle, Toren and Herrick faced one another directly in hand-to-hand combat. Ultimately, Toren could not possibly have won the fight, since he was effectively the last member of his last army still on his feet. In the event, the battle between them -- which involved another artifact of the House of Ottovar [tum, te, tum, te, tum] -- not only dropped both of them but killed almost every man (and creature) of the army Herrick had brought to the ball, as well. Unfortunately, the Carnadosans still had several armies left, and Toren's had been the last army the Good Guys™ had.

So, after the last battle, Wencit -- as he and Toren had already discussed -- strafed Kontovar.
Bolding Mine. Thes eindicate to me that Toren did not survive the final battle. Certainly Herrick did not, or we would have heard from him since then, and it seems very unlikely that Toren survived being overwhelmed.
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: SoS information from old data dump re Baen Bar(Spoiler?)
Post by Knightfire   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:11 pm

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not only dropped both of them but killed almost every man (and creature) of the army Herrick had brought to the ball, as well. Unfortunately, the Carnadosans still had several



I think its interesting that instead of saying they "died" it only says it "dropped" both of them but killed almost every man. Why not write is as killing Torren, his brother and everyone else. Why "dropped" and not "killed"?
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