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Brandark's future

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: Brandark's future
Post by John Prigent   » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:58 pm

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I've wondered for a long time whether Brandark's god would turn out to be Orr. The 'brothers' ' quote makes it unlikely, but RFC has been known to change things along the way.
Cheers
John
fallsfromtrees wrote:
Oline wrote:I just completed rereading Oath of Swords in it Chesmirsa states that Brandark is too much of her brothers' to be a bard but that he has a poet's soul and thus would always be partly hers. I have read many other fiction and nonfiction books and Sailors are sometimes said to have the soul of a poet. Thing is he is a man of many talents and thus could easily fit in with many of the gods spheres of influence. Semkirk due to his thirst for knowledge. Korthrala due to his interest in the Ships. I could see him following Hirahim due to his song about Bahzell. Thing is there are times where Brandark is off visiting with Kilthan on a project of his own. The idea of him as a leader of a Norfressan navy also has its points.

Well Chemirsa's brothers are: Korthrala (god of sea and love), Norfram (god of fortune, good and bad), Semkirk (god of wisdom and mental and physical disipline), Sorbus (the smith of the gods - actually a half brother of Chemirsa), Tolomos (got of light and the sun), Tomanak(god of war and justice), Torframos (god of the earth), and Toragan (god of nature). We already know that Tomanak is not Brandark's "other" god. Of the remaining ones its hard to choose. Torframos and Sorbus seem to be out, as they don't match with Brandark's proclivities, but all of the others possibly. Suggestions anyone?
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by jchilds   » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:03 am

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Phrobus is also a brother, but I doubt Chesmirsa would have been quite so calm about the issue if he was the brother she was referring to. :twisted:
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:12 pm

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jchilds wrote:Phrobus is also a brother, but I doubt Chesmirsa would have been quite so calm about the issue if he was the brother she was referring to. :twisted:

True statement.
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by Vince   » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:12 pm

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Like many on this forum, I've been trying to guess which god Brandark Brandarkson will end up with, trying match up Brandark with the attributes of the gods listed in the Appendix (without much success), ever since Chesmirsa told Brandark that although he would never be a bard, that he was too much her brothers', he had the soul of a poet.

Here's what Chesmirsa said to Brandark:
Oath of Swords, Chapter 17 wrote:Bahzell recognized an oath when he heard one, and he bent his head in acknowledgment. The goddess gazed at him for one more moment, then turned her eyes to Brandark, and her face lightened.
"And so to you." The Bloody Sword looked up once more, his eyes bright, and she smiled. "Ah, Brandark! Brandark! What shall I do with you?"
"Do with me, Lady?" he asked hesitantly, and her smile became an urchin's grin.
"Alas, Brandark, you have the soul of a poet, but the other tools—!" He felt himself blush, yet her eyes lit a bubble of laughter in his heart even as she shook her head at him.
"I do my best, My Lady," he said humbly, and she nodded.
"That you do, and always have. But the truth, Brandark, is that you were never meant for the task you thought. You are too much my brothers', too apt to other tasks. You will never be a bard."
"Never?" Brandark Brandarkson had never dreamed he could feel such sorrow—or that so much joy could wrap itself about the hurt—and his goddess smiled upon him.
"Never," she said firmly. "Music you will have always, and my blessing on your joy in it, but another career awaits you. One that will demand all you have and are, and which will fill you with a joy you never knew to seek. I promise you that, and—" her eyes danced at him "—I think you'll find it one to suit a poet's soul. Live it well, Brandark."
Italics are the author's.

I was re-reading Oath of Swords and this line in the above quote jumped out at me (Chesmirsa speaking to Brandard):
You are too much my brothers', too apt to other tasks.

It took me several re-readings of the book to realize what David actually had Chesmirsa say to Brandark.

She did NOT say:
You are too much my brother's

Which is what I initially thought David had Chesmirsa said/meant.

She actually said:
You are too much my brothers'

Which is considerably different than what I had thought David had Chesmirsa said/meant.

What I (erroneously) thought David had Chesmirsa say was that Brandark was too much one of her brothers. (The singular possessive form: brother's -- note the placement of the apostrophe before the s indicating a single brother having possession -- brother's.)

What David actually wrote Chesmirsa saying was that Brandark was too much more than one (or all) of her brothers (excluding Phrobos). (The plural possessive form: brothers' -- note the placement of the apostrophe after the s indicating more than one brother having possession -- brothers'.)

I think David may have deliberately given us a very subtle clue here as to who of the Gods of Light Brandark Brandarkson may end up with. He may end up with more than just one. (The Gods of Light seem to be changing the rules in Orfressa.)

Or David misplaced the apostrophe as a typo and he and the editors at Baen Books didn't catch it. The copyright date on Oath of Swords is 1995. This is before David broke his wrist and began using voice activated computer software to write his books, so he was manually typing them.

I don't think it was a typo, although it could have been.


Your thoughts?
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:30 pm

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Vince wrote:Like many on this forum, I've been trying to guess which god Brandark Brandarkson will end up with, trying match up Brandark with the attributes of the gods listed in the Appendix (without much success), ever since Chesmirsa told Brandark that although he would never be a bard, that he was too much her brothers', he had the soul of a poet.

Here's what Chesmirsa said to Brandark:
Oath of Swords, Chapter 17 wrote:Bahzell recognized an oath when he heard one, and he bent his head in acknowledgment. The goddess gazed at him for one more moment, then turned her eyes to Brandark, and her face lightened.
"And so to you." The Bloody Sword looked up once more, his eyes bright, and she smiled. "Ah, Brandark! Brandark! What shall I do with you?"
"Do with me, Lady?" he asked hesitantly, and her smile became an urchin's grin.
"Alas, Brandark, you have the soul of a poet, but the other tools—!" He felt himself blush, yet her eyes lit a bubble of laughter in his heart even as she shook her head at him.
"I do my best, My Lady," he said humbly, and she nodded.
"That you do, and always have. But the truth, Brandark, is that you were never meant for the task you thought. You are too much my brothers', too apt to other tasks. You will never be a bard."
"Never?" Brandark Brandarkson had never dreamed he could feel such sorrow—or that so much joy could wrap itself about the hurt—and his goddess smiled upon him.
"Never," she said firmly. "Music you will have always, and my blessing on your joy in it, but another career awaits you. One that will demand all you have and are, and which will fill you with a joy you never knew to seek. I promise you that, and—" her eyes danced at him "—I think you'll find it one to suit a poet's soul. Live it well, Brandark."
Italics are the author's.

I was re-reading Oath of Swords and this line in the above quote jumped out at me (Chesmirsa speaking to Brandard):
You are too much my brothers', too apt to other tasks.

It took me several re-readings of the book to realize what David actually had Chesmirsa say to Brandark.

She did NOT say:
You are too much my brother's

Which is what I initially thought David had Chesmirsa said/meant.

She actually said:
You are too much my brothers'

Which is considerably different than what I had thought David had Chesmirsa said/meant.

What I (erroneously) thought David had Chesmirsa say was that Brandark was too much one of her brothers. (The singular possessive form: brother's -- note the placement of the apostrophe before the s indicating a single brother having possession -- brother's.)

What David actually wrote Chesmirsa saying was that Brandark was too much more than one (or all) of her brothers (excluding Phrobos). (The plural possessive form: brothers' -- note the placement of the apostrophe after the s indicating more than one brother having possession -- brothers'.)

I think David may have deliberately given us a very subtle clue here as to who of the Gods of Light Brandark Brandarkson may end up with. He may end up with more than just one. (The Gods of Light seem to be changing the rules in Orfressa.)

Or David misplaced the apostrophe as a typo and he and the editors at Baen Books didn't catch it. The copyright date on Oath of Swords is 1995. This is before David broke his wrist and began using voice activated computer software to write his books, so he was manually typing them.

I don't think it was a typo, although it could have been.


Your thoughts?

I think that David was giving us a much more substantial clue when he he had Brandark studying ship handling on the trip into Belhadan. I think that he is going to end up being attached to Korthrala (god of the sea).
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by biochem   » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:17 pm

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I think that David was giving us a much more substantial clue when he he had Brandark studying ship handling on the trip into Belhadan. I think that he is going to end up being attached to Korthrala (god of the sea).


While Brandark loved studying seamanship, he doesn't just love studying that. He's been a scholar even back in the bad old days when he had to compile a library from damaged books. As best I can tell, he loves studying everything. Therefore, I think he will wind up following Semkirk.
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:02 pm

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biochem wrote:
I think that David was giving us a much more substantial clue when he he had Brandark studying ship handling on the trip into Belhadan. I think that he is going to end up being attached to Korthrala (god of the sea).


While Brandark loved studying seamanship, he doesn't just love studying that. He's been a scholar even back in the bad old days when he had to compile a library from damaged books. As best I can tell, he loves studying everything. Therefore, I think he will wind up following Semkirk.

Possible - with him developing mage powers?
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by jsburbidge   » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:05 pm

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biochem wrote:While Brandark loved studying seamanship, he doesn't just love studying that. He's been a scholar even back in the bad old days when he had to compile a library from damaged books. As best I can tell, he loves studying everything. Therefore, I think he will wind up following Semkirk.


There is also the interesting fact that in his piece on coursers and the fall of Kontovar, Weber says that the Hradani are extremely practical and not given to abstract scholarship. This just goes to emphasize how unusual Brandark is in this.

So I tend to agree about his degree of affiliation to Semkirk. There's also the minor point that for someone with connections to Korthrala (and remember, he did not take to sailing naturally) he's certainly spent a lot of intervening time up in land-locked parts if Sothoii country.
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by Vince   » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:23 pm

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Replying to myself after re-reading The War God's Own. Noticed further developments in The War God's Own related to what Chesmirsa said/meant to Brandark.
Vince wrote:Like many on this forum, I've been trying to guess which god Brandark Brandarkson will end up with, trying match up Brandark with the attributes of the gods listed in the Appendix (without much success), ever since Chesmirsa told Brandark that although he would never be a bard, that he was too much her brothers', he had the soul of a poet.

Here's what Chesmirsa said to Brandark:
Oath of Swords, Chapter 17 wrote:Bahzell recognized an oath when he heard one, and he bent his head in acknowledgment. The goddess gazed at him for one more moment, then turned her eyes to Brandark, and her face lightened.
"And so to you." The Bloody Sword looked up once more, his eyes bright, and she smiled. "Ah, Brandark! Brandark! What shall I do with you?"
"Do with me, Lady?" he asked hesitantly, and her smile became an urchin's grin.
"Alas, Brandark, you have the soul of a poet, but the other tools—!" He felt himself blush, yet her eyes lit a bubble of laughter in his heart even as she shook her head at him.
"I do my best, My Lady," he said humbly, and she nodded.
"That you do, and always have. But the truth, Brandark, is that you were never meant for the task you thought. You are too much my brothers', too apt to other tasks. You will never be a bard."
"Never?" Brandark Brandarkson had never dreamed he could feel such sorrow—or that so much joy could wrap itself about the hurt—and his goddess smiled upon him.
"Never," she said firmly. "Music you will have always, and my blessing on your joy in it, but another career awaits you. One that will demand all you have and are, and which will fill you with a joy you never knew to seek. I promise you that, and—" her eyes danced at him "—I think you'll find it one to suit a poet's soul. Live it well, Brandark."
Italics are the author's.

I was re-reading Oath of Swords and this line in the above quote jumped out at me (Chesmirsa speaking to Brandard):
You are too much my brothers', too apt to other tasks.

It took me several re-readings of the book to realize what David actually had Chesmirsa say to Brandark.

She did NOT say:
You are too much my brother's

Which is what I initially thought David had Chesmirsa said/meant.

She actually said:
You are too much my brothers'

Which is considerably different than what I had thought David had Chesmirsa said/meant.

What I (erroneously) thought David had Chesmirsa say was that Brandark was too much one of her brothers. (The singular possessive form: brother's -- note the placement of the apostrophe before the s indicating a single brother having possession -- brother's.)

What David actually wrote Chesmirsa saying was that Brandark was too much more than one (or all) of her brothers (excluding Phrobos). (The plural possessive form: brothers' -- note the placement of the apostrophe after the s indicating more than one brother having possession -- brothers'.)

I think David may have deliberately given us a very subtle clue here as to who of the Gods of Light Brandark Brandarkson may end up with. He may end up with more than just one. (The Gods of Light seem to be changing the rules in Orfressa.)

Or David misplaced the apostrophe as a typo and he and the editors at Baen Books didn't catch it. The copyright date on Oath of Swords is 1995. This is before David broke his wrist and began using voice activated computer software to write his books, so he was manually typing them.

I don't think it was a typo, although it could have been.


Your thoughts?

Further developments in The War God's Own related to what Chesmirsa said/meant to Brandark:

Continuity error, typo or David deliberately having Brandark misunderstand what Chesmirsa actually said/meant?

Here's the relevant mention from:
The War God's Own, Chapter 27 wrote:"Bahzell and I actually met Chesmirsa, you know," Brandark went on, and the lingering sorrow vanished as his eyes glowed. "It was . . . . I don't begin to have the words for what it was like, Marglyth. The most wonderful night of my life—the night I truly realized for the first time how much magic there is in the world. Not just what wizards and gods can do, but in here." He tapped his chest. "Inside us. She showed me that, and even when She told me I would never be a bard, She promised She would always be with me. That I would always be at least partly Hers."
He fell silent once more, fingers caressing his instrument, and Marglyth sat very still, listening to the wistful, yearning beauty he coaxed from it. Then he inhaled deeply.
"At any rate, she told me then that I was 'too much Her brother's to be fully Hers. At the time, I assumed she was speaking of Tomanāk , and perhaps she was, in part. But somehow—" He frowned, then shook his head. "Somehow that's not . . . quite . . . right. There's something more to it. I just haven't figured out what."
Italics are the author's

The quotations are different from Oath of Swords and The War God's Own. The quote in Oath of Swords reads:
You are too much my brothers', too apt to other tasks.

While the quote in The War God's Own reads:
At any rate, she told me then that I was 'too much Her brother's to be fully Hers.

The quote from Oath of Swords is Chesmirsa talking directly to Brandark, while the quote from The War God's Own is Brandard repeating what he heard/understood Chesmirsa saying/meant to Marglyth.

The quotes differ from one another in the placement of the apostrophe and the letter s after the word "brother".

Oath of Swords:
You are too much my brothers'
with the apostrophe placed after the s, indicating the plural possessive, meaning more than one brother, or all of them (excluding Phrobos) -- brothers'.

While The War God's Own:
too much Her brother's
with the the apostrophe placed before the s, indicating the singular possessive, meaning only one brother (excluding Phrobos) -- brother's.

So the differences could either be a continuity error caused by a typo in either Oath of Swords or The War God's Own that David and the editors at Baen Books didn't catch. The copyright date on The War God's Own is 1998. This is also before David broke his wrist and began using voice activated computer software to write his books, so he was manually typing them.

or

I think David may have very, very subtlety planted a clue with the difference in Chesmirsa's speaking and Brandark's hearing and understanding. When we read what Chesmirsa actually said to Brandark, we as readers are reading what David has set down in text as the actually meaning of what Chesmirsa is saying to Brandark. But Brandark has to first hear what Chesmirsa is saying before he can understand it. He hears the word:

brothers
or
brother's
or
brothers'

all of which sound the exactly the same. I think brothers (without the apostrophe) can be excluded both by the context of the rest of what Chesmirsa said to Brandark and the fact we as readers see the words that David has set down in the text as what Chesmirsa said to Brandark.

However the choice between brother's (singular possessive) and brothers' (plural possessive) is harder to determine. Brandark initially seems to have thought it was the singular form (brother's), at least at the time, but now he seems to be feeling unsure of exactly what he understood Chesmirsa meant:
"At any rate, she told me then that I was 'too much Her brother's to be fully Hers. At the time, I assumed she was speaking of Tomanāk , and perhaps she was, in part. But somehow—" He frowned, then shook his head. "Somehow that's not . . . quite . . . right. There's something more to it. I just haven't figured out what."


Let us examine exactly how much information David has packed into just one paragraph of just five sentences.

"At any rate, she told me then that I was 'too much Her brother's to be fully Hers. At the time, I assumed she was speaking of Tomanāk ,

The first sentence and the first half of the second sentence has Brandark starting out thinking that Chesmirsa was referring only to her brother Tomanāk (just him--singular).

and perhaps she was, in part.

The second half of the second sentence has Brandark thinking that Tomanāk is perhaps just part of who among her brothers that he may be "too much Her brother"(s).

But somehow—" He frowned, then shook his head. "Somehow that's not . . . quite . . . right. There's something more to it. I just haven't figured out what."
The third, fourth and fifth sentences have Brandark beginning to think that being "too much Her brother"(s) may not be just Tomanāk, but "There's something more to it." Something, or perhaps someone(s), else that is involved, as well.

After analyzing the two sections from both Oath of Swords and The War God's Own in regards to what Chesmirsa said to Brandark, both what he heard and what he understood, have me convinced that the position of the apostrophe in both books was deliberately done by David (and that it was NOT a typo and NOT a continuity error caused by a typo) to give us a very brief, subtle clue as to what Brandark's future may hold. Although exactly what that future may hold is still unclear to me.

So as far as who among of the (male) Gods of Light Brandark Brandarkson may end up with, he may end up with more than just one--or all of them. (The Gods of Light seem to be changing the rules in Orfressa, or at least the ones the characters know.) Although I'm not sure who exactly Brandark will end up choosing to follow.

As others have pointed out, although Phrobos is Chesmirsa's brother as well, it is clear that Brandard won't have anything to do for him. (For him, as opposed to with him--you can have doings with someone as an enemy as well as an ally.)



Your thoughts?
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: Brandark's future
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:40 am

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I didn't bother copying the previous post, in order to save electrons. I still think you are grasping at straws - and from some of the other posts, I am now inclined to believe that his God will turn out to be Semkirk.
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