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Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by Emo Otaku   » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:10 am

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Also on that list of difficulties would be

Every Wind Rider, The Whole of Clan Iron Axe. Every Member of the order of Tomanak, the Silver Cavern Clan of the Dwarfs, the mages, probably every courser on Norfressa.

And the champions of every single god of light
~~~~~~

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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by Kytheros   » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:19 pm

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Well, yeah ... but I was making a short list of those most likely to be immediately in the way of a physical assassination attempt (and probably those most offended, with a lengthy track record of flipping off assassination attempts). That is, those likely to be in close proximity at the time of the attempt.
Sure, there are lots of people who would frown mightily upon such an assassination attempt, but they're not all going to be around when someone takes a shot (most of them probably wouldn't be, if the assassin had a shred of sense).


Of course, if I'm going to try to assassinate Leana, I'm going to use either an extremely fast acting highly lethal poison (so she dies before she can be healed) or a poison with a delayed reaction in a meal or something, so that I have time to get away.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by AClone   » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:08 pm

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Actually, when I read the family dynamics, I was wonderuing if Sharnayith was actually working as something of an agent for her mother--i.e., having the same position as her mother, but concealing her feelings so that she would know what her father was up to.

Surely MWW would never do something like THAT...

Er, oh wait, there's that Duchy in Safehold, isn't there--where a son was "dutiful" until he inherited? Much to Sharleyan's pleasant surprise?

Well, now I need to go back and read the rest of the thread. Excuse me...
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by Valentinian   » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:41 pm

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FriarBob wrote:Obviously this will be major spoilers for anybody who hasn't read the whole book yet, so be warned!

But after the epilogue, there were quite a few loose threads that were tied up... and several that weren't. One key one that hasn't been resolved was Thorandas and Shairnayith. I suspect that Brayahs was right and Thorandas will be proven innocent of knowing treason (and almost certainly be just as angry over it as Dahlnar was). But what about Shairnayith? Cassan worked very hard to keep her in technical ignorance of his most evil actions, yet she still loved her father and agreed with at least his intentions. (For that matter, Thorandas agreed with at least some of his intentions as well.) She might have objected to his methods... but then again, she might not have.

Yet the majority of the Sothoii are now apparently thinking along lines such as "hey, I may still not like the hradani, but if the Dark wants me fighting them then I'm [blank]-well going to do the exact opposite and spit in their face!", how will that affect Thorandas and Shairnayith? Will they be among the converts to this new way of thinking? Will one of them grudgingly accept the new reality and the other refuse, and will their betrothal be broken up because of it? Will they both be stubborn holdouts who refuse to accept the new reality? And if so, will Thorandas be disowned for it? For that matter, is she even a Baron's sister and an appropriate "rank match" for Thorandas anymore? Given that her father has died a traitor's death she's obviously no longer a Baron's daughter, but did her brother inherit the Barony? Or is that in limbo pending investigation? Or what?

Anybody want to make some guesses here?


In OUR reality's history (European history, mind you), the family of a treacherous noble as often as not lost the right to inherit his title & holdings. It all depended on how loyal his vassals were to his house, and whether they were more loyal to his house than to the royal house...
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:59 pm

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AClone wrote:Actually, when I read the family dynamics, I was wonderuing if Sharnayith was actually working as something of an agent for her mother--i.e., having the same position as her mother, but concealing her feelings so that she would know what her father was up to.

Surely MWW would never do something like THAT...

Er, oh wait, there's that Duchy in Safehold, isn't there--where a son was "dutiful" until he inherited? Much to Sharleyan's pleasant surprise?

Well, now I need to go back and read the rest of the thread. Excuse me...


True but the son in question never told his father (on camera) that he loved and supported him.

Still, stranger things have happened...
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:01 pm

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Valentinian wrote:
FriarBob wrote:Obviously this will be major spoilers for anybody who hasn't read the whole book yet, so be warned!

But after the epilogue, there were quite a few loose threads that were tied up... and several that weren't. One key one that hasn't been resolved was Thorandas and Shairnayith. I suspect that Brayahs was right and Thorandas will be proven innocent of knowing treason (and almost certainly be just as angry over it as Dahlnar was). But what about Shairnayith? Cassan worked very hard to keep her in technical ignorance of his most evil actions, yet she still loved her father and agreed with at least his intentions. (For that matter, Thorandas agreed with at least some of his intentions as well.) She might have objected to his methods... but then again, she might not have.

Yet the majority of the Sothoii are now apparently thinking along lines such as "hey, I may still not like the hradani, but if the Dark wants me fighting them then I'm [blank]-well going to do the exact opposite and spit in their face!", how will that affect Thorandas and Shairnayith? Will they be among the converts to this new way of thinking? Will one of them grudgingly accept the new reality and the other refuse, and will their betrothal be broken up because of it? Will they both be stubborn holdouts who refuse to accept the new reality? And if so, will Thorandas be disowned for it? For that matter, is she even a Baron's sister and an appropriate "rank match" for Thorandas anymore? Given that her father has died a traitor's death she's obviously no longer a Baron's daughter, but did her brother inherit the Barony? Or is that in limbo pending investigation? Or what?

Anybody want to make some guesses here?


In OUR reality's history (European history, mind you), the family of a treacherous noble as often as not lost the right to inherit his title & holdings. It all depended on how loyal his vassals were to his house, and whether they were more loyal to his house than to the royal house...


Oh yeah, I agree that it would be the logical response from our history. For that matter, it's what I'd want to do in Markhos' shoes as well. But the precedent in the series seems to look like it might be hard to strip the son of his title and avoid a civil war.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by AClone   » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm

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FriarBob wrote:
Oh yeah, I agree that it would be the logical response from our history. For that matter, it's what I'd want to do in Markhos' shoes as well. But the precedent in the series seems to look like it might be hard to strip the son of his title and avoid a civil war.

I suspect that even the subjects of South ZRiding have been suitably horrified to know that their Baron was not only plotting against the King--but consorting with the Dark.

Of course, MWW seems to like having festering heirs in place. So, the question might be whether the series focus moves on now from the Sothoii Wind Plain. After all, there were lots of mentions of the Yakuo(sp?) this time around.

The only question I had about succession is how EAST Riding comes out of it. But we'll apparently have to wait for the next book for that--however many years away. Sigh.

Oh, and one totally irrelevant question I have. Where did Vaishon's sword wind up? Did the Hurgrum Chapter collect it? Was it sent to the main chapter house or his parents? Or did Tomanek perhaps reclaim it/
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:42 pm

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AClone wrote:Oh, and one totally irrelevant question I have. Where did Vaishon's sword wind up? Did the Hurgrum Chapter collect it? Was it sent to the main chapter house or his parents? Or did Tomanek perhaps reclaim it/


Hmm, interesting question. Considering it was a "champion's sword" it was special. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was reclaimed by Tomanak. I also wouldn't be surprised to see it be put in a place of honor in the Hurgrum chapter house. About the only thing I would truly be surprised by would be to find some other person inheriting it as their personal weapon.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:43 pm

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FriarBob wrote:Hmm, interesting question. Considering it was a "champion's sword" it was special. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was reclaimed by Tomanak. I also wouldn't be surprised to see it be put in a place of honor in the Hurgrum chapter house. About the only thing I would truly be surprised by would be to find some other person inheriting it as their personal weapon.



Yup. I recall that only champions could pick up a champion's sword. Recall that trick Bahzell played on Hurthang(sp?) by having Vaijon bythely picking it up after his cousin tried mightly to do the same?
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:21 am

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PeterZ wrote:
FriarBob wrote:Hmm, interesting question. Considering it was a "champion's sword" it was special. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was reclaimed by Tomanak. I also wouldn't be surprised to see it be put in a place of honor in the Hurgrum chapter house. About the only thing I would truly be surprised by would be to find some other person inheriting it as their personal weapon.



Yup. I recall that only champions could pick up a champion's sword. Recall that trick Bahzell played on Hurthang(sp?) by having Vaijon bythely picking it up after his cousin tried mightly to do the same?


I remember Tomanak saying that to Bahzell. Did he ever say that to Kerry or to Vaijon? I don't recall him specifying that to either of them, nor do I recall them ever playing a similar trick on anybody else.

Then again, it could easily be considered "implied" to them...
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