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Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue

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Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:07 pm

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Obviously this will be major spoilers for anybody who hasn't read the whole book yet, so be warned!

But after the epilogue, there were quite a few loose threads that were tied up... and several that weren't. One key one that hasn't been resolved was Thorandas and Shairnayith. I suspect that Brayahs was right and Thorandas will be proven innocent of knowing treason (and almost certainly be just as angry over it as Dahlnar was). But what about Shairnayith? Cassan worked very hard to keep her in technical ignorance of his most evil actions, yet she still loved her father and agreed with at least his intentions. (For that matter, Thorandas agreed with at least some of his intentions as well.) She might have objected to his methods... but then again, she might not have.

Yet the majority of the Sothoii are now apparently thinking along lines such as "hey, I may still not like the hradani, but if the Dark wants me fighting them then I'm [blank]-well going to do the exact opposite and spit in their face!", how will that affect Thorandas and Shairnayith? Will they be among the converts to this new way of thinking? Will one of them grudgingly accept the new reality and the other refuse, and will their betrothal be broken up because of it? Will they both be stubborn holdouts who refuse to accept the new reality? And if so, will Thorandas be disowned for it? For that matter, is she even a Baron's sister and an appropriate "rank match" for Thorandas anymore? Given that her father has died a traitor's death she's obviously no longer a Baron's daughter, but did her brother inherit the Barony? Or is that in limbo pending investigation? Or what?

Anybody want to make some guesses here?
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:15 pm

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Based on the care Cassan took in keeping both of his children unknowing of his plans, I suspect that his son became the Baron once the Mages cleared him of being involved in his father's illegal activities.

Beyond that, I don't have any thoughts on the "loose ends".


FriarBob wrote:Obviously this will be major spoilers for anybody who hasn't read the whole book yet, so be warned!

But after the epilogue, there were quite a few loose threads that were tied up... and several that weren't. One key one that hasn't been resolved was Thorandas and Shairnayith. I suspect that Brayahs was right and Thorandas will be proven innocent of knowing treason (and almost certainly be just as angry over it as Dahlnar was). But what about Shairnayith? Cassan worked very hard to keep her in technical ignorance of his most evil actions, yet she still loved her father and agreed with at least his intentions. (For that matter, Thorandas agreed with at least some of his intentions as well.) She might have objected to his methods... but then again, she might not have.

Yet the majority of the Sothoii are now apparently thinking along lines such as "hey, I may still not like the hradani, but if the Dark wants me fighting them then I'm [blank]-well going to do the exact opposite and spit in their face!", how will that affect Thorandas and Shairnayith? Will they be among the converts to this new way of thinking? Will one of them grudgingly accept the new reality and the other refuse, and will their betrothal be broken up because of it? Will they both be stubborn holdouts who refuse to accept the new reality? And if so, will Thorandas be disowned for it? For that matter, is she even a Baron's sister and an appropriate "rank match" for Thorandas anymore? Given that her father has died a traitor's death she's obviously no longer a Baron's daughter, but did her brother inherit the Barony? Or is that in limbo pending investigation? Or what?

Anybody want to make some guesses here?
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by BrightSoul   » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:46 pm

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Probably with a contingent of Mages and Wind Riders stationed in his barony to watch over him with a direct reminder to cease and desist or else.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Based on the care Cassan took in keeping both of his children unknowing of his plans, I suspect that his son became the Baron once the Mages cleared him of being involved in his father's illegal activities.

Beyond that, I don't have any thoughts on the "loose ends".


FriarBob wrote:Obviously this will be major spoilers for anybody who hasn't read the whole book yet, so be warned!

But after the epilogue, there were quite a few loose threads that were tied up... and several that weren't. One key one that hasn't been resolved was Thorandas and Shairnayith. I suspect that Brayahs was right and Thorandas will be proven innocent of knowing treason (and almost certainly be just as angry over it as Dahlnar was). But what about Shairnayith? Cassan worked very hard to keep her in technical ignorance of his most evil actions, yet she still loved her father and agreed with at least his intentions. (For that matter, Thorandas agreed with at least some of his intentions as well.) She might have objected to his methods... but then again, she might not have.

Yet the majority of the Sothoii are now apparently thinking along lines such as "hey, I may still not like the hradani, but if the Dark wants me fighting them then I'm [blank]-well going to do the exact opposite and spit in their face!", how will that affect Thorandas and Shairnayith? Will they be among the converts to this new way of thinking? Will one of them grudgingly accept the new reality and the other refuse, and will their betrothal be broken up because of it? Will they both be stubborn holdouts who refuse to accept the new reality? And if so, will Thorandas be disowned for it? For that matter, is she even a Baron's sister and an appropriate "rank match" for Thorandas anymore? Given that her father has died a traitor's death she's obviously no longer a Baron's daughter, but did her brother inherit the Barony? Or is that in limbo pending investigation? Or what?

Anybody want to make some guesses here?
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:03 am

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I definitely would expect the mages.

Not so sure on wind riders. They don't wear armor 24/7, after all, and even with armor they can still fall to treachery. While removing them would be a mistake, it might still be possible, and I don't see what they really add to the "watchful eye".

Mages can be attacked too, of course, but what with mind-speaking and such trying it would be a very foolish mistake... and they DO make a MAJOR contribution to the "watchful eye"...


BrightSoul wrote:Probably with a contingent of Mages and Wind Riders stationed in his barony to watch over him with a direct reminder to cease and desist or else.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Based on the care Cassan took in keeping both of his children unknowing of his plans, I suspect that his son became the Baron once the Mages cleared him of being involved in his father's illegal activities.

Beyond that, I don't have any thoughts on the "loose ends".
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by Brom O'Berin   » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:14 am

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IMHO, the betrothal is off, by Borandas' decision, if not by any choice of Thorandas. He was already leary of ties to Cassan, and with Cassan now proven not only a conspirator who deals with the Servants of the Dark Gods, and an attempted regicide and traitor, anyone with former ties will be bailing like rats from a sinking ship.

I question if the family will be allowed to retain the Barony, even if cleared by mages. They may be reduced to personal holdings and titles. Can the Crown or Council afford to leave the Barony with that family?

Leanna gave up being heir to a barony, but now could be considered a Princess ...

FriarBob wrote:Obviously this will be major spoilers for anybody who hasn't read the whole book yet, so be warned!

But after the epilogue, there were quite a few loose threads that were tied up... and several that weren't. One key one that hasn't been resolved was Thorandas and Shairnayith. I suspect that Brayahs was right and Thorandas will be proven innocent of knowing treason (and almost certainly be just as angry over it as Dahlnar was). But what about Shairnayith? Cassan worked very hard to keep her in technical ignorance of his most evil actions, yet she still loved her father and agreed with at least his intentions. (For that matter, Thorandas agreed with at least some of his intentions as well.) She might have objected to his methods... but then again, she might not have.

Yet the majority of the Sothoii are now apparently thinking along lines such as "hey, I may still not like the hradani, but if the Dark wants me fighting them then I'm [blank]-well going to do the exact opposite and spit in their face!", how will that affect Thorandas and Shairnayith? Will they be among the converts to this new way of thinking? Will one of them grudgingly accept the new reality and the other refuse, and will their betrothal be broken up because of it? Will they both be stubborn holdouts who refuse to accept the new reality? And if so, will Thorandas be disowned for it? For that matter, is she even a Baron's sister and an appropriate "rank match" for Thorandas anymore? Given that her father has died a traitor's death she's obviously no longer a Baron's daughter, but did her brother inherit the Barony? Or is that in limbo pending investigation? Or what?

Anybody want to make some guesses here?
Top
Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:47 pm

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Hmm, interesting idea. Personally I wouldn't want to leave the Barony in that family either. I wouldn't even want to leave the East Riding Barony alone, for that matter. But I'm not sure if Markhos can "get away" with stripping even the South Riding from that family without sparking the very civil war Carnadosa was trying to create. Now obviously in theory he has the power to do it, but the situation in Golden Vale after it was stripped from Cassan / South Riding and added to Tellian / West Riding gives a bit of a case in point. Even with fairly strong evidence of treason for the previous lord warden (Saratic, I think) many of the holders of the district looked upon their new lord warden as an interloper and a usurper even after "their" lord warden was dead!

Just like Saratic was a traitor and then dead, now Cassan is in exactly the same boat. I don't think we know if Saratic had a son who was denied his inheritance or not, however. He probably did, but I don't recall it being explicitly mentioned. But even if he did and if that son had tried to resist the decision, it would probably have been a fairly short fight, since Cassan was forced to hide to prevent his previous involvement from being proven, which would have limited any chance of outside support.

So if the same pattern held, then if Cassan's son wasn't allowed to inherit, would he attempt to resist the decision by force of arms? I could see him wanting to. And if he did, I could easily see his lords warden following him off to battle. And that would have been a MUCH bigger war. Not sure if Markhos would have been willing to take that chance.

On the other hand, Saratic wasn't proven to have been dabbling in dark wizardry. So maybe... maybe you could be right after all... i.e. that Cassan's treason was so heinous that his son could be denied the inheritance and his lords warden would accept the decision. Maybe.


Brom O'Berin wrote:IMHO, the betrothal is off, by Borandas' decision, if not by any choice of Thorandas. He was already leary of ties to Cassan, and with Cassan now proven not only a conspirator who deals with the Servants of the Dark Gods, and an attempted regicide and traitor, anyone with former ties will be bailing like rats from a sinking ship.

I question if the family will be allowed to retain the Barony, even if cleared by mages. They may be reduced to personal holdings and titles. Can the Crown or Council afford to leave the Barony with that family?

Leanna gave up being heir to a barony, but now could be considered a Princess ...

FriarBob wrote:Obviously this will be major spoilers for anybody who hasn't read the whole book yet, so be warned!

But after the epilogue, there were quite a few loose threads that were tied up... and several that weren't. One key one that hasn't been resolved was Thorandas and Shairnayith. I suspect that Brayahs was right and Thorandas will be proven innocent of knowing treason (and almost certainly be just as angry over it as Dahlnar was). But what about Shairnayith? Cassan worked very hard to keep her in technical ignorance of his most evil actions, yet she still loved her father and agreed with at least his intentions. (For that matter, Thorandas agreed with at least some of his intentions as well.) She might have objected to his methods... but then again, she might not have.

Yet the majority of the Sothoii are now apparently thinking along lines such as "hey, I may still not like the hradani, but if the Dark wants me fighting them then I'm [blank]-well going to do the exact opposite and spit in their face!", how will that affect Thorandas and Shairnayith? Will they be among the converts to this new way of thinking? Will one of them grudgingly accept the new reality and the other refuse, and will their betrothal be broken up because of it? Will they both be stubborn holdouts who refuse to accept the new reality? And if so, will Thorandas be disowned for it? For that matter, is she even a Baron's sister and an appropriate "rank match" for Thorandas anymore? Given that her father has died a traitor's death she's obviously no longer a Baron's daughter, but did her brother inherit the Barony? Or is that in limbo pending investigation? Or what?

Anybody want to make some guesses here?
Top
Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by iranuke   » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:08 pm

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All this talk about inheretance is all very well, but I believe that it is a side issue. The mages will prove that the son was innocent, the king will talk severly to him and then he will inherit.

Moving on in the Epilogue, the implication is that Leanna is pregnant, but the question is still why is Wincent so protective of her? The wizzard lords of Kontover have been warned no to try to kill Leanna with some harsh consequences if they try again, if I where they, I'd move that to the top of my priority list on the theory that if Wincent is trying to protect her that much then her survival is so important to the other side that my survival would demand her death. What do you think?
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:38 pm

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The Dark Gods might *push* for her death but the Wizard Lords are going to be more concerned about Wincet's revenge.

Of course, Wincet "left them an out" so to speak.

He said that any *magical* attack on her would result in a massive attack on them.

So even if they suspect that Leena's child is the key to their defeat, they can use other means than "magical attacks" against her.



iranuke wrote:All this talk about inheretance is all very well, but I believe that it is a side issue. The mages will prove that the son was innocent, the king will talk severly to him and then he will inherit.

Moving on in the Epilogue, the implication is that Leanna is pregnant, but the question is still why is Wincent so protective of her? The wizzard lords of Kontover have been warned no to try to kill Leanna with some harsh consequences if they try again, if I where they, I'd move that to the top of my priority list on the theory that if Wincent is trying to protect her that much then her survival is so important to the other side that my survival would demand her death. What do you think?
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by Kytheros   » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:18 pm

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DrakBibliophile wrote:The Dark Gods might *push* for her death but the Wizard Lords are going to be more concerned about Wincet's revenge.

Of course, Wincet "left them an out" so to speak.

He said that any *magical* attack on her would result in a massive attack on them.

So even if they suspect that Leena's child is the key to their defeat, they can use other means than "magical attacks" against her.



iranuke wrote:All this talk about inheretance is all very well, but I believe that it is a side issue. The mages will prove that the son was innocent, the king will talk severly to him and then he will inherit.

Moving on in the Epilogue, the implication is that Leanna is pregnant, but the question is still why is Wincent so protective of her? The wizzard lords of Kontover have been warned no to try to kill Leanna with some harsh consequences if they try again, if I where they, I'd move that to the top of my priority list on the theory that if Wincent is trying to protect her that much then her survival is so important to the other side that my survival would demand her death. What do you think?

I'm fairly certain that loophole - physical attacks - was left deliberately, in the event that the Dark Gods ordered their followers to kill her, as otherwise they'd have no reason not to magically attack her in lieu of physical attacks. Physical attacks are something that she can fight off, magical attacks not so much.
He knows that he can't reasonably expect them to leave her alone outright, even with his threat of restrafing Kontovar, if the Dark Gods order them to get rid of her, but with his threat of retaliation against magical attacks, he effectively forces them to act against her in an area of her expertise (also, for some reason, I suspect that a physical attack would also run into difficulties with names such as 'Gayrfressa', 'Bazhell', and 'Walsharno', among others).
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:32 pm

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Agree, he deliberately left them an out.

Oh, I'd add the War Maids to that list of "difficulties". [Wink]


Kytheros wrote:
DrakBibliophile wrote:The Dark Gods might *push* for her death but the Wizard Lords are going to be more concerned about Wincet's revenge.

Of course, Wincet "left them an out" so to speak.

He said that any *magical* attack on her would result in a massive attack on them.

So even if they suspect that Leena's child is the key to their defeat, they can use other means than "magical attacks" against her.



iranuke wrote:All this talk about inheretance is all very well, but I believe that it is a side issue. The mages will prove that the son was innocent, the king will talk severly to him and then he will inherit.

Moving on in the Epilogue, the implication is that Leanna is pregnant, but the question is still why is Wincent so protective of her? The wizzard lords of Kontover have been warned no to try to kill Leanna with some harsh consequences if they try again, if I where they, I'd move that to the top of my priority list on the theory that if Wincent is trying to protect her that much then her survival is so important to the other side that my survival would demand her death. What do you think?

I'm fairly certain that loophole - physical attacks - was left deliberately, in the event that the Dark Gods ordered their followers to kill her, as otherwise they'd have no reason not to magically attack her in lieu of physical attacks. Physical attacks are something that she can fight off, magical attacks not so much.
He knows that he can't reasonably expect them to leave her alone outright, even with his threat of restrafing Kontovar, if the Dark Gods order them to get rid of her, but with his threat of retaliation against magical attacks, he effectively forces them to act against her in an area of her expertise (also, for some reason, I suspect that a physical attack would also run into difficulties with names such as 'Gayrfressa', 'Bazhell', and 'Walsharno', among others).
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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