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COnsequences of the Canal

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:20 pm

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Maybe so. Of course I recall that Bahzell was staying at Hill Gaurd as a "hostage" much as he stayed as he stayed as a hostage with the Bloody Swords. If you recall Varnaythus' thoughts just before Bahzell and Leeana got married, he discussed the slow progress of acceptance the Lord Exchequer displayed towards the whole idea of becomming alies with the hradani.

So, though you amy be right, FB. I think Bahzell spent most of the 7 years on the Wind Plain. A trip down to the Wild Wash would have taken months each way and eaten a good part of a year. That would not have included the time to earn those hradanis' confidence.

In any case we shall see in one of the next few books.

FriarBob wrote:I very highly doubt that Bahzell has sat on his butt for seven years and never bothered to get the news about the new Rage down to the Broken Bone or Wild Wash tribes. Considering he was willing to announce this news on the eve of war between the Horse Stealers and the Bloody Swords, I cannot conceive of any reasonable explanation but that Weber just didn't bother to give said announcement any "camera time".

PeterZ wrote:Very Nice, Ericth!

This ties very nicely to Trianal's impending marriage to a mage, doesn't it? Bahzell and his bride will visit his adoptive family and facilitate trade agreements between all three of Bahzell's and Leenana's clans. Hmmmm perhaps toss in war maid interests as well.

I wonder how much time RFC has included in his story arc for these developments? Will his very tight 5 book series begin immediately or some time down the road? Perhaps after our couple's first child reaches his/her late teens? Something suggests to me that the next book will begin some time longer in the future than War Maid's Choice began after Wind Rider's Oath.

If there is a delay, we may not see such a trip down south.

ericth wrote:The canal and the possibility of increased contact between northern and southern Hradani reminds me of something that I thought of when Bahzell first was given his directive to tell the Hradani about the rage. As far as we know, he hasnt been down south to talk to the Broken Bone and Wild Wash clans yet to tell them about the rage.

And, given that they are far closer to Kontavar, wouldnt they need to know this to have any hope of resisting an invation force intent on conscripting them the way they were 1200 years ago?
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by CaptCaveman   » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:17 pm

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There is more than one way to get the word to the Hradani such as using the mage academy in the Empire of the Spear. Be interesting to see how RFC does it.
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by SYED   » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:26 pm

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THose border states and the hrandi have fought and raided each other for a long time. BUt with the canal they have a common goal, its security and trade will help in rich them all. SO a joint effort by all nations boardering it, they will amass an armed force that could decimate the monsters.

WIth the canal, they have an easy way to secure logistics.
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by FriarBob   » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:07 am

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Bahzell was staying at Hill Guard, true, but I don't believe I specified that he physically went to deliver the message himself. I did use the phrase "sat on his butt" but primarily I meant that as "made no effort" not necessarily "did not go himself". I intended the key phrase to be "never bothered to get the news [...] down to the [...] tribes", which phrasing does not require his physical presence, and with "bothered" being the key word in that phrase. Because it would have been very hard to go himself. No, not impossible of course, and we do have a seven year gap between books here. And I don't buy your "most of a year" timeframe. A windrider could probably do a trip like this in two months, probably even less, so probably a maximum round-trip of four months. Still, I doubt he'd do it that way. But I also even more so doubt that he did nothing at all. I think the message was too important, but since he couldn't take it himself he sent somebody else to do the job.

Who might that have been? Well there's the obvious fact that there are plenty of members of the local Order of Tomanak in Hurgrum. There had to be somebody there they could send.

And then there's Kerry. We know she spent at least part of that seven year gap helping Quaysar and Kalatha recover from their near-destruction. But apparently not all of it, because it appears she is no longer on the Wind Plain and has left to take on new tasks. Sure she's a woman, but Hradani are one of the few races of man where the vast majority of the men truly give women even half their due. (Dwarves are really the only other one where we know they do. I expect elves would, but we have no proof. And while some human men do this, many do not.)

And then there are other champions of Tomanak. Even as a human (or dwarf, or elf) they would probably be able to get people's attention. It might be a bit harder, but once Vaijon got his head extracted from his rectum he turned out to be a pretty decent fellow even before he became a champion. Given that others who were champions for longer would likely be even better at handling weird tasks for Tomanak, I doubt it would be impossible for them to get the job done.

I'll agree with you that it seems unlikely Bahzell himself physically went to deliver the news. But I still just don't buy he did nothing at all for an entire seven years about something this critical.

PeterZ wrote:Maybe so. Of course I recall that Bahzell was staying at Hill Gaurd as a "hostage" much as he stayed as he stayed as a hostage with the Bloody Swords. If you recall Varnaythus' thoughts just before Bahzell and Leeana got married, he discussed the slow progress of acceptance the Lord Exchequer displayed towards the whole idea of becomming alies with the hradani.

So, though you amy be right, FB. I think Bahzell spent most of the 7 years on the Wind Plain. A trip down to the Wild Wash would have taken months each way and eaten a good part of a year. That would not have included the time to earn those hradanis' confidence.

In any case we shall see in one of the next few books.

FriarBob wrote:I very highly doubt that Bahzell has sat on his butt for seven years and never bothered to get the news about the new Rage down to the Broken Bone or Wild Wash tribes. Considering he was willing to announce this news on the eve of war between the Horse Stealers and the Bloody Swords, I cannot conceive of any reasonable explanation but that Weber just didn't bother to give said announcement any "camera time".
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by Kytheros   » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:07 am

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FriarBob wrote:Bahzell was staying at Hill Guard, true, but I don't believe I specified that he physically went to deliver the message himself. I did use the phrase "sat on his butt" but primarily I meant that as "made no effort" not necessarily "did not go himself". I intended the key phrase to be "never bothered to get the news [...] down to the [...] tribes", which phrasing does not require his physical presence, and with "bothered" being the key word in that phrase. Because it would have been very hard to go himself. No, not impossible of course, and we do have a seven year gap between books here. And I don't buy your "most of a year" timeframe. A windrider could probably do a trip like this in two months, probably even less, so probably a maximum round-trip of four months. Still, I doubt he'd do it that way. But I also even more so doubt that he did nothing at all. I think the message was too important, but since he couldn't take it himself he sent somebody else to do the job.

Who might that have been? Well there's the obvious fact that there are plenty of members of the local Order of Tomanak in Hurgrum. There had to be somebody there they could send.

And then there's Kerry. We know she spent at least part of that seven year gap helping Quaysar and Kalatha recover from their near-destruction. But apparently not all of it, because it appears she is no longer on the Wind Plain and has left to take on new tasks. Sure she's a woman, but Hradani are one of the few races of man where the vast majority of the men truly give women even half their due. (Dwarves are really the only other one where we know they do. I expect elves would, but we have no proof. And while some human men do this, many do not.)

And then there are other champions of Tomanak. Even as a human (or dwarf, or elf) they would probably be able to get people's attention. It might be a bit harder, but once Vaijon got his head extracted from his rectum he turned out to be a pretty decent fellow even before he became a champion. Given that others who were champions for longer would likely be even better at handling weird tasks for Tomanak, I doubt it would be impossible for them to get the job done.

I'll agree with you that it seems unlikely Bahzell himself physically went to deliver the news. But I still just don't buy he did nothing at all for an entire seven years about something this critical.

PeterZ wrote:Maybe so. Of course I recall that Bahzell was staying at Hill Gaurd as a "hostage" much as he stayed as he stayed as a hostage with the Bloody Swords. If you recall Varnaythus' thoughts just before Bahzell and Leeana got married, he discussed the slow progress of acceptance the Lord Exchequer displayed towards the whole idea of becomming alies with the hradani.

So, though you amy be right, FB. I think Bahzell spent most of the 7 years on the Wind Plain. A trip down to the Wild Wash would have taken months each way and eaten a good part of a year. That would not have included the time to earn those hradanis' confidence.

In any case we shall see in one of the next few books.

FriarBob wrote:I very highly doubt that Bahzell has sat on his butt for seven years and never bothered to get the news about the new Rage down to the Broken Bone or Wild Wash tribes. Considering he was willing to announce this news on the eve of war between the Horse Stealers and the Bloody Swords, I cannot conceive of any reasonable explanation but that Weber just didn't bother to give said announcement any "camera time".

I have to agree. It's something that has almost certainly happened in the background, somewhere in the intervening years.
While exactly how and when he sent a message to the other Hradani is unknown, it is also probably going to be immaterial, unless it specifically comes up somewhere along the line.
For all we know, he even could have had a message sent to the Broken Bone and Wild Wash hradani before the events of Wind Rider's Oath. Technically, there would even have been time for it to have happened in the background, and left unmentioned, prior to the Bloody Sword/Horse Stealer war kicking off again.
Admittedly, it's more likely that the message was sent after the unification of the Northern Confederation.
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by Emo Otaku   » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:30 am

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I think it would take Bahzell himself to bring the word to the southern Hradani but unless he went by sea I think he would have to have gone through at least some of the Purple Lords Lands where he would not have been very popular, and while it would of been dificult for them to kill him I'm sure enopugh money would bring people willing to give it a try

Then its suddenly

"Oh dear the brigands and bandits are terrible this year I guess even a Chanmpion can even be unlucky"

Unless he wants to take a large portion of the order with him of course,

As for the canal most of Northern Norfressa will probably undergo some kind of renaisance as more and more wealth is spread out in the area (a larger example of what is happening already with the Northern Coalition).

the Purple Lords will start to lose more and more of their influence until they try and do something rash

If I were some of those northern leaders I would be tempted to offer the Spearman nobles most in debt to the Purple Lords very good loan deals in order to pay off their debts which would reduce PL influence in the empire of the Spear even more

Ans as for the river bandits they'll probably do something stupid sooner rather than later and mostly get wiped out
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by Kytheros   » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:18 pm

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Why would it take Bahzell himself? There's a fair number of other people he could trust to do the job; he could have sent a detachment from the Hurgrum Chapter, and maybe swiped some human members from another Chapter of the Order to ease things over with other lands they would need to pass through.
He knows that spreading the word about the changes in the Rage is important. He's had something like a decade or so knowing about them. He's also not the most patient of people. If for whatever reason he were so tied up doing something else that he couldn't get free to take the information personally, he's got people he could send to spread the information in his stead.

For that matter, what with the unification and rise of the Northern Confederation, Bahnak may have sent emissaries to the other hradani, under the theory that having friendly relations (and influence) with as many of the other hradani clans as possible isn't going to be a bad thing.
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:12 pm

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Does anyone know where Kaeritha went?
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But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:22 am

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Maybe. More likely a delegation of the hurgrum chapter would have gone. It was Tomanak that intruduced the news of the New Rage, it should be Tomanak that spreads it to all the hradani.

Although I agree that Bahzell did send someone to the Wild Wash hradani, I would still like to see he and Leeana go for a visit his kinsmen down south. Ya' know..... that Bahzell has relatives everywhere. I wonder what Empire/Federation of nations a fertile child of his and Leeana's could forge?

Kytheros wrote:Why would it take Bahzell himself? There's a fair number of other people he could trust to do the job; he could have sent a detachment from the Hurgrum Chapter, and maybe swiped some human members from another Chapter of the Order to ease things over with other lands they would need to pass through.
He knows that spreading the word about the changes in the Rage is important. He's had something like a decade or so knowing about them. He's also not the most patient of people. If for whatever reason he were so tied up doing something else that he couldn't get free to take the information personally, he's got people he could send to spread the information in his stead.

For that matter, what with the unification and rise of the Northern Confederation, Bahnak may have sent emissaries to the other hradani, under the theory that having friendly relations (and influence) with as many of the other hradani clans as possible isn't going to be a bad thing.
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Re: COnsequences of the Canal
Post by Michael Everett   » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:33 pm

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Earlier, I wrote:Does anyone know where Kaeritha went?


I wasn't changing the subject...
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But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

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