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War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:49 pm

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Did anyone else think this was misdirection? Isvaria's visit simply confirmed that Leeana and Geyrfressa wouldn't be crushed by the possible events of life. They could fail to defeat the Dark, but they would never lose that core of themselves to the Dark.

Simple and straight forward....but what's the point of the scene?

I think it was to misdirect the Dark of the true importance of lillinara's visit and the gift of the marriage bracelets. Otherwise the scene seems gratuitous from a plot perspective or from that of the stories internal logic.



BrightSoul wrote:Spoiler Space....

Did anyone else find it a tad forshadowing that Leeana meets Isvaria right after Gayrfressa has a conversation with her about learning to fight as a Wind Rider and she's dressed in full Plate with a Battleaxe? Is this a glance at her eventual future training?
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by Skia   » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:25 pm

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FriarBob wrote:Did you ever see Isvaria explicitly described as wearing full plate? For that matter, do we even know for sure what the typical armor and weapons of her Axes would happen to be? Yes a battleaxe is likely... but we have no guarantee about the plate armor.
...
I think we can also rule out Lillinara. The "progression" of the Arms of the Maiden/Mother/Crone just doesn't really seem to fit Leeana, and given that she's about to become a mother (though I do have to congratulate Weber on finding a very subtle way to "give it away") I can't see her starting as a Arm of the Maiden when no longer a maiden is she.
...


I guess I had the same question about Isvaria. Do her champions only wield axes of sorts? That would seem rather limiting to me, but then again maybe she only likes the personality types that would wield axes.
I was going to disagree about Lillinara given her obvious approval of Leena and Bahzell, but after rereading about her I don't see her as likely.
I really hope that Leena has nothing to do with Hirahim for both Bahzell's and Hirahim's sake.

Of course this is only speculation as we don't know that she will be chosen as a champion even though it does seem likely. Just as it seems likely that Brandark will as well despite going several books without that happening yet.
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by Rook   » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:33 pm

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I agree that something odd is happening here. Gods don't just show up to give what is essentially a pep talk... But that looks like what actually happened.

What was the point to Isvaria showing herself to Leeana?

PeterZ wrote:Did anyone else think this was misdirection? Isvaria's visit simply confirmed that Leeana and Geyrfressa wouldn't be crushed by the possible events of life. They could fail to defeat the Dark, but they would never lose that core of themselves to the Dark.

Simple and straight forward....but what's the point of the scene?

I think it was to misdirect the Dark of the true importance of lillinara's visit and the gift of the marriage bracelets. Otherwise the scene seems gratuitous from a plot perspective or from that of the stories internal logic.

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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:09 am

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Rook wrote:I agree that something odd is happening here. Gods don't just show up to give what is essentially a pep talk... But that looks like what actually happened.

What was the point to Isvaria showing herself to Leeana?


...I noted that in the epilogue, when Vaijon, Bahzell and Leeana were talking, Leeana was wearing a certain trinket given to her by Isvaria. Maybe this was what allowed a certain someone to appear?

(Carefully phrased to try and avoid avoid ruining the book for anyone who is still reading through it for the first time)
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by Ravenschild   » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:53 am

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Depends on the axe...a horsemans axe (2 foot or slightly longer shaft with a 4-6 inch blade) works just fine...its also a one handed weapon. Not all battle axes are 2 handed axes.
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:09 am

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That does work for plot purposes. Elegant trick if true.

I re-read the scene and had thought Isvaria's appearance was to discuss some parallels that would make Sword Brother less disjointed. Her explaination of what passes for grace in the stories kind of does that.

All in all I like your interpretation better.

Michael Everett wrote:
Rook wrote:I agree that something odd is happening here. Gods don't just show up to give what is essentially a pep talk... But that looks like what actually happened.

What was the point to Isvaria showing herself to Leeana?


...I noted that in the epilogue, when Vaijon, Bahzell and Leeana were talking, Leeana was wearing a certain trinket given to her by Isvaria. Maybe this was what allowed a certain someone to appear?

(Carefully phrased to try and avoid avoid ruining the book for anyone who is still reading through it for the first time)
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:17 am

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That works for Horses at 6 feet off the ground. Think Eight feet off the ground and the proportions begin to look less workable. Those dimensions won't allow a rider to reach closer than 4 feet above the ground. A cavalry sabre extends that reach bu 1-1.5 feet using the same or less mass.

Ravenschild wrote:Depends on the axe...a horsemans axe (2 foot or slightly longer shaft with a 4-6 inch blade) works just fine...its also a one handed weapon. Not all battle axes are 2 handed axes.
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by Sharidann   » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:14 am

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I also noted the trinket and thanks to your comment, I managed to add 2 and 2....

As Isvaria is mistress of the Dead.... it opens up certain possibilities, indeed.

And one thing we know, David doesn't put scenes on just to fill some more pages... Err.. just to be sure, David you are not one of those 19th century french novelists who were paid by the line or the page... are you ? ;-)
Michael Everett wrote:
Rook wrote:I agree that something odd is happening here. Gods don't just show up to give what is essentially a pep talk... But that looks like what actually happened.

What was the point to Isvaria showing herself to Leeana?


...I noted that in the epilogue, when Vaijon, Bahzell and Leeana were talking, Leeana was wearing a certain trinket given to her by Isvaria. Maybe this was what allowed a certain someone to appear?

(Carefully phrased to try and avoid avoid ruining the book for anyone who is still reading through it for the first time)
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by Macharius   » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:24 am

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Rook wrote:I agree that something odd is happening here. Gods don't just show up to give what is essentially a pep talk... But that looks like what actually happened.

What was the point to Isvaria showing herself to Leeana?


Maybe this?

War Maid's Choice wrote:Leeana stared into the eyes of the Goddess of Death, and those eyes touched something inside her. There was a…flicker. A dancing current or a flaring candle flame. She couldn’t put a name to the sensation, not really, yet she knew it would always be there. She might lose it, from time to time, and it would be no armor against fear, uncertainty, doubt…but it would always return to her, as well, and under that fear and uncertainty and doubt there would be this assurance, this promise, from the power to which all life returned in the fullness of time.

“I know it’s a heavy weight to bear,” Isvaria told her, “but you’re fit to bear it, both of you, and love will take you to places the Dark can never come. I do not name you my champions, but I do name you the daughters I’ve called you—my daughters. Whether you come to me early, or you come to me late, I will be waiting for you, and I will gather you as my own.”


I read this as Leanna receiving some kind of "spiritual reinforcement" (for lack of a better description), since something more than just knowledge seems to have been given here. It's like she was marked by Isvaria - also the goddess of memory and completion, not just death! - yet still not "called" to be a Champion.

I don't think Champion of any diety is her role, but then again I was wrong about her and Bahzell ever coming together in the first place so discretion may be the better part of valor in making that kind of prediction!
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Re: War Maid's Choice Spoiler... Isvaria's Axes
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:05 am

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I believe that touch is as close to grace as is possible in the Bahzellverse. The enduring promise of the Light to be with their people, not just Leeana. In one sense it is a pep talk. One that describes what sustains the non-champions against the Dark in the stories.

Macharius wrote:
Rook wrote:I agree that something odd is happening here. Gods don't just show up to give what is essentially a pep talk... But that looks like what actually happened.

What was the point to Isvaria showing herself to Leeana?


Maybe this?

War Maid's Choice wrote:Leeana stared into the eyes of the Goddess of Death, and those eyes touched something inside her. There was a…flicker. A dancing current or a flaring candle flame. She couldn’t put a name to the sensation, not really, yet she knew it would always be there. She might lose it, from time to time, and it would be no armor against fear, uncertainty, doubt…but it would always return to her, as well, and under that fear and uncertainty and doubt there would be this assurance, this promise, from the power to which all life returned in the fullness of time.

“I know it’s a heavy weight to bear,” Isvaria told her, “but you’re fit to bear it, both of you, and love will take you to places the Dark can never come. I do not name you my champions, but I do name you the daughters I’ve called you—my daughters. Whether you come to me early, or you come to me late, I will be waiting for you, and I will gather you as my own.”


I read this as Leanna receiving some kind of "spiritual reinforcement" (for lack of a better description), since something more than just knowledge seems to have been given here. It's like she was marked by Isvaria - also the goddess of memory and completion, not just death! - yet still not "called" to be a Champion.

I don't think Champion of any diety is her role, but then again I was wrong about her and Bahzell ever coming together in the first place so discretion may be the better part of valor in making that kind of prediction!
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