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Next book is listed

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: Next book is listed
Post by FriarBob   » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:18 pm

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Hmm... OK. I can go with that too. Whatever gets me the book sooner is fine by me.

PeterZ wrote:I actually hope that Toni is feeling Greedy! E-ARC sales are gravy for Baen and the Bahzell fans are twiching with withdrawal symptoms. I know I am.

FriarBob wrote:Nope, Aint's fan.

Snip

OK... enough ranting about football... back to the topic of real importance! :) Yeah I'm sure they COULD release the eARC anytime they want. Maybe they need a week to prepare or something, but I can't really see them needing even that much and definitely not any more. Hopefully Toni is feeling generous. :)
PeterZ wrote:I assume that you are a GB fan, FB. That's gotta smart. Of course, I was rooting for the Broncos after my Bears fell apart midway through the season. Double ouch, eh?

RFC tends to write his drafts more completely than most authors, so an e-ARC is very possible much earlier than usual. One hopes that Toni's marketing dept doesn't see a Bahzell book as taking away from the heavy dose of Honorverse this year. If they do, we might see a late e-ARC. Shudder.

Let's hope it comes soon!
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:44 pm

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FriarBob wrote:Nope, Aint's fan.

Snip

OK... enough ranting about football... back to the topic of real importance! :) Yeah I'm sure they COULD release the eARC anytime they want. Maybe they need a week to prepare or something, but I can't really see them needing even that much and definitely not any more. Hopefully Toni is feeling generous. :)

That was a rant about football? Didn't seem like it to me... hmmm... oh yeah, of course! It's American football you're on about, where everyone barges into everyone else and takes a break every five minutes for refreshment and tactical instruction.
Sorry, for a moment I thought you were ranting about real football. The sort where you don't have to wear 2o kg of padding. My mistake.
:-D
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by FriarBob   » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:06 pm

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Michael Everett wrote:
FriarBob wrote:OK... enough ranting about football...

That was a rant about football? Didn't seem like it to me... hmmm... oh yeah, of course! It's American football you're on about, where everyone barges into everyone else and takes a break every five minutes for refreshment and tactical instruction.
Sorry, for a moment I thought you were ranting about real football. The sort where you don't have to wear 2o kg of padding. My mistake.
:-D


Hey if you want to like soccer, I'm not going to try to stop you. But I prefer a man's game, not a little 80-pound boy's game. :P (OK, OK, 120 pound skinny guy's game... :P)

I will admit you need a ton of endurance for that pointless game of "kick the ball all over the place and chase it for 30 minutes before anybody even manages to score once", and hey if you like it feel free. But IMO the people watching the game need almost as much mental endurance as the people playing it need physical endurance! :)

So I prefer a bit more action than a game where 1-0, 2-0, or 2-1 are common scores.
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by Michael Everett   » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:51 am

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FriarBob wrote:Hey if you want to like soccer, I'm not going to try to stop you. But I prefer a man's game, not a little 80-pound boy's game. :P (OK, OK, 120 pound skinny guy's game... :P)


A man's game? Well, I'm afraid that American Football still doesn't really qualify, too much padding and too many tea-breaks. Rugby, on the other hand...
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by FriarBob   » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:28 pm

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Michael Everett wrote:
FriarBob wrote:Hey if you want to like soccer, I'm not going to try to stop you. But I prefer a man's game, not a little 80-pound boy's game. :P (OK, OK, 120 pound skinny guy's game... :P)


A man's game? Well, I'm afraid that American Football still doesn't really qualify, too much padding and too many tea-breaks. Rugby, on the other hand...


So by your standards, a marathon runner is an athlete but a sprinter is a worthless fool. I'm sure Michael Phelps would disagree with you about that. So would just about everybody who enjoys ANY form of track events.

Now I wouldn't mind if Rugby was more available over here in the states. It looks like a fun game... but it's still disorganized complete chaos, much like soccer. It's all a combination of individual effort and occasionally two or three people working together, with rather little strategy. I'm sure it will surprise you if you ever come to realize I'm right, but the mental aspect of football is almost as important as the physical... at least if you are playing something more advanced than a pick-up game in the backyard, that is. Because in a "real" game, you have to have all eleven men on the same page to have even a chance of success.
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by Michael Everett   » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:10 pm

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FriarBob wrote:So by your standards, a marathon runner is an athlete but a sprinter is a worthless fool.


Not remotely what I said. However, since this is your interpretation of it, I have to wonder what this says about you and the form of logic you are using...
I don't (yet) think you are an insane troll, but that bit of "logic" was certainly reminiscient of it...

Please prove me wrong. Demonstrate, showing all the steps in the chain of logic you used, how you got from my assertation that Rugby is a real man's game when compared to American Football to your statement as above. How does protective padding (or lack thereof) relate to marathons and sprinters? Do marathoners need safety helmets and anti-bruise shirt inserts? How do injury rates and types compare on a per-hour-played average between Rugby and American Football (and in an AF match, how much of the length is actual play?)

And as an aside, why is there no American Football in the Assiti Shards universe?

Final note, nice use of the classic debaters trick. But you ain't as good as Simeon of the SSS-900-C. And when he used that trick, he was called on it. Still, nice try.
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by FriarBob   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:59 am

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Michael Everett wrote:
FriarBob wrote:So by your standards, a marathon runner is an athlete but a sprinter is a worthless fool.


Not remotely what I said. However, since this is your interpretation of it, I have to wonder what this says about you and the form of logic you are using...
I don't (yet) think you are an insane troll, but that bit of "logic" was certainly reminiscient of it...

Please prove me wrong. Demonstrate, showing all the steps in the chain of logic you used, how you got from my assertation that Rugby is a real man's game when compared to American Football to your statement as above. How does protective padding (or lack thereof) relate to marathons and sprinters? Do marathoners need safety helmets and anti-bruise shirt inserts? How do injury rates and types compare on a per-hour-played average between Rugby and American Football (and in an AF match, how much of the length is actual play?)

And as an aside, why is there no American Football in the Assiti Shards universe?

Final note, nice use of the classic debaters trick. But you ain't as good as Simeon of the SSS-900-C. And when he used that trick, he was called on it. Still, nice try.


Who's changing topics now? I was talking about SOCCER vs Football. You want to throw Rugby in, fine. I answered that LATER.

But the original question was Soccer, which is pure endurance, versus football, which is much more "sprinter"-like in the short bursts of INTENSE effort followed by a short break... then doing it AGAIN. And AGAIN. And AGAIN. And AGAIN. And the quote you have taken out of context and twisted into a pretzel was about the difference between football and soccer, with absolutely no relationship to rugby whatsoever.

Insane troll? "logic" in sneer quotes? Hmm, something about the pot and the kettle comes to mind...

Oh and it's not MY fault the 1632 authors were idiots when they were coming up with their retarded excuse for not having football in it. Hey even geniuses have their moments of non-genius, and nobody's ever called Flint a genius (or if they did, they were brown-nosing VERY blatantly).
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:58 pm

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Actually, I called Eric's development of Victor Cachat and RFC's decision to adapt his story to include that character genius. That character represented a compelling relativist perspective for our protagonists. The MAlign provided that perspective for the antagonists. I neither like nor understand that character but do accept his internal consistency of motives.

FriarBob wrote:
Michael Everett wrote:
FriarBob wrote:So by your standards, a marathon runner is an athlete but a sprinter is a worthless fool.


Not remotely what I said. However, since this is your interpretation of it, I have to wonder what this says about you and the form of logic you are using...
I don't (yet) think you are an insane troll, but that bit of "logic" was certainly reminiscient of it...

Please prove me wrong. Demonstrate, showing all the steps in the chain of logic you used, how you got from my assertation that Rugby is a real man's game when compared to American Football to your statement as above. How does protective padding (or lack thereof) relate to marathons and sprinters? Do marathoners need safety helmets and anti-bruise shirt inserts? How do injury rates and types compare on a per-hour-played average between Rugby and American Football (and in an AF match, how much of the length is actual play?)

And as an aside, why is there no American Football in the Assiti Shards universe?

Final note, nice use of the classic debaters trick. But you ain't as good as Simeon of the SSS-900-C. And when he used that trick, he was called on it. Still, nice try.


Who's changing topics now? I was talking about SOCCER vs Football. You want to throw Rugby in, fine. I answered that LATER.

But the original question was Soccer, which is pure endurance, versus football, which is much more "sprinter"-like in the short bursts of INTENSE effort followed by a short break... then doing it AGAIN. And AGAIN. And AGAIN. And AGAIN. And the quote you have taken out of context and twisted into a pretzel was about the difference between football and soccer, with absolutely no relationship to rugby whatsoever.

Insane troll? "logic" in sneer quotes? Hmm, something about the pot and the kettle comes to mind...

Oh and it's not MY fault the 1632 authors were idiots when they were coming up with their retarded excuse for not having football in it. Hey even geniuses have their moments of non-genius, and nobody's ever called Flint a genius (or if they did, they were brown-nosing VERY blatantly).
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by FriarBob   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:24 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Actually, I called Eric's development of Victor Cachat and RFC's decision to adapt his story to include that character genius. That character represented a compelling relativist perspective for our protagonists. The MAlign provided that perspective for the antagonists. I neither like nor understand that character but do accept his internal consistency of motives.


Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. I still consider Cachat more comic-relief than real character development. That said, the storyline is well done and the character is extremely effective at making me laugh my butt off. And this is clearly an area where YMMV, and you're welcome to your opinion. I will have to call it brown-nosing to call it genius though. That's just too over-the-top for me. Excellent I could buy, even as I still think that's going too far. But not genius.

That said, RFC adapting his story to use the guy was extremely well-done. Still won't call it genius, but it might be a bit closer.
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Re: Next book is listed
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:04 pm

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Eric didn't think it was brown nosing. That one compliment was accompanied by some strong disagreement on several other issues.

As for my Cachat, realize that I see most of Weber's work in terms of moral arguments. How does the Weber character know what he or she is supposed to do? Where does his/her moral standard come from? Armed with a moral standard, what is the individual's responsibility to live according to that moral standard?

RFC doesn't do relativist very well at all. At least I haven't found a Weber character with a relative moral code who I found as interesting as Flint's Cachat. The inclusion of that POV in the Honorverse filled an important hole in Weber's literary argument.

This doesn't mean that I agree with Eric on many things. It is very likely that we agree on very little. I do find his contribution very important to the overarching themes of RFC's entire body of work.


FriarBob wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Actually, I called Eric's development of Victor Cachat and RFC's decision to adapt his story to include that character genius. That character represented a compelling relativist perspective for our protagonists. The MAlign provided that perspective for the antagonists. I neither like nor understand that character but do accept his internal consistency of motives.


Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. I still consider Cachat more comic-relief than real character development. That said, the storyline is well done and the character is extremely effective at making me laugh my butt off. And this is clearly an area where YMMV, and you're welcome to your opinion. I will have to call it brown-nosing to call it genius though. That's just too over-the-top for me. Excellent I could buy, even as I still think that's going too far. But not genius.

That said, RFC adapting his story to use the guy was extremely well-done. Still won't call it genius, but it might be a bit closer.
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