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Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?

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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by FriarBob   » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:49 am

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Donnachaidh wrote:Because they don't cooperate very well. We saw the tension between the different followers in previous books, adding more dark gods would only make it worse and have it fall apart sooner.

FriarBob wrote:Well, except for the minor detail that two (or maybe three) of the dark gods were cooperating in that endeavor already... why not one more?


They don't usually cooperate at all. And when they do, they don't do it very well.

That does NOT, however, mean that they couldn't try to do it just this once... if the target is important enough for all of them...

And, as Jay just pointed out, apparently somebody is...
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by Jay6722   » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:07 pm

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The Dark Gods cooperate to some degree, they just don't do it very well. One of the biggest reasons they don't work well together is that they are unwilling to sacrifice some of their power for the betterment of the team. Phrobus does have some minimal control over what the other dark gods do. So the Dark gods themselves probably work together more frequently then you might think. Their Churches on the other hand do not work together all that often.

FriarBob wrote:
Donnachaidh wrote:Because they don't cooperate very well. We saw the tension between the different followers in previous books, adding more dark gods would only make it worse and have it fall apart sooner.

FriarBob wrote:Well, except for the minor detail that two (or maybe three) of the dark gods were cooperating in that endeavor already... why not one more?


They don't usually cooperate at all. And when they do, they don't do it very well.

That does NOT, however, mean that they couldn't try to do it just this once... if the target is important enough for all of them...

And, as Jay just pointed out, apparently somebody is...
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by Rook13   » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:50 am

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Jay6722 wrote:Donnachaidh, I just realized Sharna did have a follower that was part of the conspiracy on the Wind Plain named Salgahn. So Sharna was a part of the conspiracy as well. We will have to wait and see how big a role Salgahn will play in the future.

It would be another reason why Bahzell is on the Wind Plain. Because from what we have learned in the stories Bahzell is Tomanak's anti-Sharna specialist.

Donnachaidh wrote:Because they don't cooperate very well. We saw the tension between the different followers in previous books, adding more dark gods would only make it worse and have it fall apart sooner.

FriarBob wrote:Well, except for the minor detail that two (or maybe three) of the dark gods were cooperating in that endeavor already... why not one more?


I just now read this thread, so please pardon my tardiness.
I have to disagree with the classification of Bahzell as an "anti-Sharna specialist." Yes, he's taken out a significant chunk of Sharna's infrastructure in his travels; they were thrown at him, he dealt with them. He's also left a broad swathe of dead servants of other Dark Gods; he busts bad guys. As a specialist, Bahzell's category is warfare/battle/beat-down (I'm a little surprised that Krashnark hasn't tossed a Servant Bahzell's way, toe-to-toe so to speak); Kaeritha's specialty is justice, & Vaijon's is honorable conduct. Doesn't mean they can't (or won't) work on projects outside their comfort zone (Bahzell broke Vaijon's arms for a very good reason, after all), they just tend to have a mindset & method based on their specialty. And Bahzell's methods tend toward high villian body counts.
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by Jay6722   » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:31 pm

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Rook13, when I refer to Bahzell as Tomanak's anti-Sharna specialist I'm talking about which of the dark gods Bahzell is going to hurt the most not what part of Tomanak's nature he is most comfortable with.
According to Wencit in Sword Brother none of the Dark Gods like what will happen in their worst case scenario; but Sharna hates it the most because it will be most painful for him. In other words in the Dark Gods' worst case scenario Bahzell is will have inflected more damage to Sharna's operations on Norfressa then any other Dark God or Goddess.

Rook13 wrote:I just now read this thread, so please pardon my tardiness.
I have to disagree with the classification of Bahzell as an "anti-Sharna specialist." Yes, he's taken out a significant chunk of Sharna's infrastructure in his travels; they were thrown at him, he dealt with them. He's also left a broad swathe of dead servants of other Dark Gods; he busts bad guys. As a specialist, Bahzell's category is warfare/battle/beat-down (I'm a little surprised that Krashnark hasn't tossed a Servant Bahzell's way, toe-to-toe so to speak); Kaeritha's specialty is justice, & Vaijon's is honorable conduct. Doesn't mean they can't (or won't) work on projects outside their comfort zone (Bahzell broke Vaijon's arms for a very good reason, after all), they just tend to have a mindset & method based on their specialty. And Bahzell's methods tend toward high villian body counts.
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by Rook13   » Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:23 am

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Jay6722 wrote:Rook13, when I refer to Bahzell as Tomanak's anti-Sharna specialist I'm talking about which of the dark gods Bahzell is going to hurt the most not what part of Tomanak's nature he is most comfortable with.
According to Wencit in Sword Brother none of the Dark Gods like what will happen in their worst case scenario; but Sharna hates it the most because it will be most painful for him. In other words in the Dark Gods' worst case scenario Bahzell is will have inflected more damage to Sharna's operations on Norfressa then any other Dark God or Goddess.


I'm not so certain that's really accurate. Certainly, Bahzell has inflicted the most damage on Sharna so far. However, that's mostly because of circumstance & luck. Sharna can't field an agent capable of fighting Bahzell, & between him & Brandark they have Hirahim's own luck (possibly litterally) avoiding Sharna's natural brand of attack. Sharna's already handed off a shot at Bahzell once, & had proven that even his best demons can't keep up, even in groups. It's in my mind that Bahzell has made himself a kind of trophy for the dark gods; the one who brings him down gets massive prestige. If nobody takes him out, he'll keep hammering away until all dark churches are rubble. He's not picky. Of course, if Sharna keeps wasting resources on Bahzell, he will be the most damaged. By his own stupidity, if nothing else.
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by Jay6722   » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:47 am

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Rook13, I agree that Bahzell isn't picky about which dark god or goddess he fights. You could be right that Bahzell won't do the most damage to Sharna; but I think that Sharna is going to focus his efforts on Bahzell, resulting in him getting hurt the most.

Rook13 wrote:
Jay6722 wrote:Rook13, when I refer to Bahzell as Tomanak's anti-Sharna specialist I'm talking about which of the dark gods Bahzell is going to hurt the most not what part of Tomanak's nature he is most comfortable with.
According to Wencit in Sword Brother none of the Dark Gods like what will happen in their worst case scenario; but Sharna hates it the most because it will be most painful for him. In other words in the Dark Gods' worst case scenario Bahzell is will have inflected more damage to Sharna's operations on Norfressa then any other Dark God or Goddess.


I'm not so certain that's really accurate. Certainly, Bahzell has inflicted the most damage on Sharna so far. However, that's mostly because of circumstance & luck. Sharna can't field an agent capable of fighting Bahzell, & between him & Brandark they have Hirahim's own luck (possibly litterally) avoiding Sharna's natural brand of attack. Sharna's already handed off a shot at Bahzell once, & had proven that even his best demons can't keep up, even in groups. It's in my mind that Bahzell has made himself a kind of trophy for the dark gods; the one who brings him down gets massive prestige. If nobody takes him out, he'll keep hammering away until all dark churches are rubble. He's not picky. Of course, if Sharna keeps wasting resources on Bahzell, he will be the most damaged. By his own stupidity, if nothing else.
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by rafael   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:08 am

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Jay6722 wrote:FriarBob it wasn't Sharna that was in charge the operations involving the War Maids it was Shigu. Which means anything the dark gods were trying to ovoid was suppose to be avoided by Shigu. Michael, Leanna becoming a champion of Tomanak would be very surprising. I would expect her to become champion of Lillinara.

FriarBob wrote:
Michael Everett wrote:Just a minor note that may have an effect on this thread. I noted from the Twitter feed that the Mad Wizard is probably going to call the next book "War Maid's Choice".

Could Leanna be about to become the first War Maid Champion of Tomanak?

Let the speculation commence...


Well there are a LOT of things that could be chosen... and a LOT of war maids who could be DOING the choosing. So while that's at least a possibility, there are quite a few others as well.

One thing I do remember, there was something in the previous book about the attack on Lillianara's temple having multiple possible "good" outcomes for the bad guys and gals, even if their plans didn't quite work out in a fully "ideal" way. So it's also possible that there is another war maid, one already established as a leader in some fashion, who will make a critical decision in this next book that Sharna hoped to prevent.


But Kareatha said that Tomanak thought it was best to help Leanna become a war maid.
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by Charles83   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:36 pm

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rafael wrote:But Kareatha said that Tomanak thought it was best to help Leanna become a war maid.


where in what chapter did this appear, i would like to know.
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Re: Who could Sharna want dead more more then Bahzell?
Post by rafael   » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:34 am

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Charles83 wrote:
rafael wrote:But Kareatha said that Tomanak thought it was best to help Leanna become a war maid.


where in what chapter did this appear, i would like to know.


WRO chap 19 at the bottom
"Champions of Tomanāk frequently find themselves a bit unpopular, Milord," she said. "On the other hand, as Bahzell has said a time or two, 'a champion is one as does what needs doing.' " She shrugged. "This needed doing."

"Perhaps it did," he acknowledged. "But I hope one of the consequences won't be to undermine whatever it is you're here to do for Scale Balancer."

"As far as that goes, Milord," she said thoughtfully, "it's occurred to me that helping Leeana get here in the first place may have been a part of what I'm supposed to do. I'm not sure why it should have been, but it feels right, and I've learned it's best to trust my feelings in cases like this."

Tellian didn't look as if he found the thought that any god, much less the War God, should want one of his champions to help his only child run away to the war maids particularly encouraging. If so, she didn't blame him a bit . . . and at least he was courteous enough not to put his feelings into words.
Sorry it's so long but I wanted to have enough for some context.
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