Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Brandark's God and other things.....

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Jaxomfaux   » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:17 pm

Jaxomfaux
Ensign

Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:03 pm

my pet theory is still brandark will be the first white wizard since wencit hence he'll follow semkirk.

reasons being, he'd have to be 1/2 hradani and his mother is NEVER mentioned and being shrouded in mystery. his dad is known for being "odd" and having traveled outside the hradini's territory.

2) technically him and bhazell are still teenagers so mage crisis might not have set in yet (or there is no mage-crisis-like thing for wizards)

3) we know he'll serve a god according to chesmirsa

4) david making a big deal about half-hradini wizards ruling the world...

but it's been quite a while since i've read the series... i should re-read in preparation :D
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Jay6722   » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:39 am

Jay6722
Commander

Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:01 am
Location: Seattle, WA

One problem with your theory is what makes it so difficult for wizard to kill a hradani that has given themselves to the rage. The rage isn't simply a passive armor; it actively interferes with the use of the magic field. So if a half hradani half human wizard were to try cast a spell and draw upon the power of rage at the same time spell would most likely backfire on him or her.

Jaxomfaux wrote:my pet theory is still brandark will be the first white wizard since wencit hence he'll follow semkirk.

reasons being, he'd have to be 1/2 hradani and his mother is NEVER mentioned and being shrouded in mystery. his dad is known for being "odd" and having traveled outside the hradini's territory.

2) technically him and bhazell are still teenagers so mage crisis might not have set in yet (or there is no mage-crisis-like thing for wizards)

3) we know he'll serve a god according to chesmirsa

4) david making a big deal about half-hradini wizards ruling the world...

but it's been quite a while since i've read the series... i should re-read in preparation :D
***
He Who Lurks Above [CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by FriarBob   » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:49 am

FriarBob
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:29 pm

Sorry, but you are very BADLY jumping to conclusions based on facts not in evidence... or even "facts" directly contradicted by other facts.

When Bahzell faced the minor Baron who was a wizard, the spell he attempted to use on him was specifically stated to be a spell of compulsion. This was a spell intended to affect Bahzell's MIND, to force him to leave or do something else he would have wanted to do. The Rage splintered that spell and Bahzell was able to kill the Baron later on off-camera.

But a few dozen pages later, when Bahzell and Brandark are facing the wizards and rescuing Zarantha, there are several bits of proof that the Rage is a MENTAL phenomenon, one that armors their MIND against magical interferences but NOT a magical one or one that directly disrupts the magic field. For one, Wencit is able to hold Bahzell despite the Rage and to dismiss the Rage from his mind. This could not happen if the Rage somehow "interfered" with the magic field. Skill and raw power are meaningless when the medium is disrupted... to use an example from a different universe, no matter how powerful a Jedi Luke Skywalker may be, he will never detect or use the Force to levitate a ysalamiri because the Force simply doesn't exist in the exclusion bubble around them. Two, Wencit casts a spell on THEM (with their permission) that caused the fake warriors to show up, and he did this while they were in the grips of their deliberately summoned Rage. Even if he cast the spell and then they summoned the Rage, it still wouldn't work if the Rage directly interfered with the magic field. Third, when the battle is joined, Bahzell stands in the way of the wizard to try to shield Zarantha from the death magic about to come her way, even though he doesn't know if it will work and Wencit interferes. If the Rage interfered with the magic field in some fashion, Wencit would have no NEED to interfere, because both Bahzell and Zarantha would have been perfectly safe from the hissing light snake that he chose instead to deflect and destroy. The implication is extremely strong that the Rage would NOT have protected them, and thus the "interferes with the magic field" that you postulate is instead quite incorrect.

Now as to whether or not Jax is right about Brandark being already half-human anyway... well, I have no idea there. Wouldn't surprise me too much either way, in fact. But I'm quite sure that if he was to become a white wizard, the Rage would not be an insurmountable difficulty.

Jay6722 wrote:One problem with your theory is what makes it so difficult for wizard to kill a hradani that has given themselves to the rage. The rage isn't simply a passive armor; it actively interferes with the use of the magic field. So if a half hradani half human wizard were to try cast a spell and draw upon the power of rage at the same time spell would most likely backfire on him or her.

Jaxomfaux wrote:my pet theory is still brandark will be the first white wizard since wencit hence he'll follow semkirk.

reasons being, he'd have to be 1/2 hradani and his mother is NEVER mentioned and being shrouded in mystery. his dad is known for being "odd" and having traveled outside the hradini's territory.

2) technically him and bhazell are still teenagers so mage crisis might not have set in yet (or there is no mage-crisis-like thing for wizards)

3) we know he'll serve a god according to chesmirsa

4) david making a big deal about half-hradini wizards ruling the world...

but it's been quite a while since i've read the series... i should re-read in preparation :D
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Macharius   » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:23 am

Macharius
Ensign

Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:03 am

Reasons I think Brandark isn't a wizard and will follow Korthrala:

1. All Norfressans fear and hate wizards. With the exception of Wencit, all wizards are killed on sight in Norfressa... even the rumor or suspicion of being one is enough to get the person lynched! Even more than other Norfressans, the hradani hate wizards with a fury that reaches into and beyond their souls; it would be anathema for hradani offspring raised as hradani to willingly become a wizard.

2. Brandark repeatedly displays interest in things nautical, even after the hradani wizard conversation.

3. We have Wencit to be the wizard of this particular adventuring party.

4. The majority of DW's stories include a naval component to the extent that it's practically a truism to expect it, and the good guys will need ships to cross the ocean to invade Kontovar.
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:49 am

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6351
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:11 pm
Location: Colorado

Brandark's interest is in knowledge not simply nautical knowledge.

He is often described as a self taught scholar. The whole sailing issue is was not included to describe his interest in sailing but his absolute curiosity regarding ANY knowledge. Even knowledge that relates to his prior experience not a whit.

So what good is a scholar with a curiosity regarding how the world around him works? Can someone say sience? Think about Sword Brother in context to applied scholarship and Brandark.

Wouldn't he be interested in how the moving iron box worked? Explosions that launched projectiles? None of it using magic? His nose would twitch right off in curiosity!

Macharius wrote:Reasons I think Brandark isn't a wizard and will follow Korthrala:

1. All Norfressans fear and hate wizards. With the exception of Wencit, all wizards are killed on sight in Norfressa... even the rumor or suspicion of being one is enough to get the person lynched! Even more than other Norfressans, the hradani hate wizards with a fury that reaches into and beyond their souls; it would be anathema for hradani offspring raised as hradani to willingly become a wizard.

2. Brandark repeatedly displays interest in things nautical, even after the hradani wizard conversation.

3. We have Wencit to be the wizard of this particular adventuring party.

4. The majority of DW's stories include a naval component to the extent that it's practically a truism to expect it, and the good guys will need ships to cross the ocean to invade Kontovar.
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Jay6722   » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:29 pm

Jay6722
Commander

Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:01 am
Location: Seattle, WA

I stand corrected.

Macharius wrote:Reasons I think Brandark isn't a wizard and will follow Korthrala:

1. All Norfressans fear and hate wizards. With the exception of Wencit, all wizards are killed on sight in Norfressa... even the rumor or suspicion of being one is enough to get the person lynched! Even more than other Norfressans, the hradani hate wizards with a fury that reaches into and beyond their souls; it would be anathema for hradani offspring raised as hradani to willingly become a wizard.

2. Brandark repeatedly displays interest in things nautical, even after the hradani wizard conversation.

3. We have Wencit to be the wizard of this particular adventuring party.

4. The majority of DW's stories include a naval component to the extent that it's practically a truism to expect it, and the good guys will need ships to cross the ocean to invade Kontovar.
***
He Who Lurks Above [CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Jaxomfaux   » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:05 am

Jaxomfaux
Ensign

Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:03 pm

friar, i'm jumping to a few conclusions granted, but i am basing it on facts.

my understanding of the rage effecting magic: it's an area of affect around the hradini were magic is warped. reasons for this is their innate linking to the "magical field" (as stated by wencit and in windrider's) and the rage being a extreme focus tool.

so if i'm innately linked to magic and i really really want something done, the magic in the zone is gonna help me be more than i can be to do the job.

supporting evidence it's not solely a mental defense is when bhazell was rescuing the kid from the baron. he tried to shoot him with a lightning bolt but he got sparkles.

the books mention repeatedly it warps the magical area and it takes a very good wizard to compensate. so wencit intervening against a high priest throwing a spell.... yeah. logical. wencit having no problem overcoming their warped area? logical, he's crafty and old.

if i need to i will provide page numbers and such, this is off the top of my head (but i have a very good memory).

as for a half-hradini not being able to use magic? extreme focus magically endowed.... yeah, wencit himself said a half-hradini wizard would rule the world due to his power. so obviously, it's possible.

and as said brandark is interested in ALL knowledge, wizards and bards share a soul in many ways.

finally why the drama about it? weber loves to foreshadow. so i assume there's a reason.

also in the first books the dark wanted to kill brandark just to annoy bhazell. in windrider's they say killing brandark is almost as important right now as killing bhazell..... something is about to happen to make brandark capable of scaring the dark. my pet theory.....
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Skia   » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:38 am

Skia
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:15 pm

Jaxomfaux wrote:as for a half-hradini not being able to use magic? extreme focus magically endowed.... yeah, wencit himself said a half-hradini wizard would rule the world due to his power. so obviously, it's possible.


That's not quite what Weber had Wencit say. From WGO chapter 14...

"I'm afraid so," Wencit confirmed. "And where the human-hradani crossing is concerned, it may be just as well for the rest of the Races of Man!" Bahzell glanced at him quizzically, and Wencit laughed. "If they weren't sterile, Bahzell, they'd probably end up ruling the world."

"What?" Brandark pricked up his ears. "And why would that happen?"

"Just for starters, they live even longer than half-elves," Wencit said dryly, "and they normally inherit the best of both their parent stocks."

" 'The best'?" Kaeritha repeated.

"Well, I think so," Wencit said. "They get the strength and toughness of their hradani parent, along with the hradani link to the magic field, but some of them also get the one thing which sets humans apart from all the other Races of Man."

"Which is?" Brandark asked.

"Wizardry, Brandark," Wencit said softly. "Ever since the days of Ottovar the Great, there hasn't been a single dwarvish, elvish, or hradani wizard. Every single one of us has been human . . . or at least half-human."


He said that if Hradani/Human mixes were fertile they would rule the world due to inheriting long lives, Hradani toughness and potential magic from humans. There is nothing said about an individual half-hradani wizard being a super wizard.


Jaxomfaux wrote:also in the first books the dark wanted to kill brandark just to annoy bhazell. in windrider's they say killing brandark is almost as important right now as killing bhazell..... something is about to happen to make brandark capable of scaring the dark. my pet theory.....


Also the quote from WRO chapter 25...

"It was not what We wished for, but it will serve Our purposes well," she told them. "Brandark's death is worth more even than Tellian's, and Bahzell's is worth more than the destruction of the entire Sothōii Kingdom."


Brandark is important. It sounds like he is even more important then a typical champion might be, but he isn't in Bahzell's league.
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Skia   » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:19 am

Skia
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:15 pm

More reading about Hradani and the rage. From the Pearls of Weber - The Nature of the Hradani on this site...

If you go back and look at the point in Oath of Swords at which Bahzell and Brandark are explaining to Tothas, what Bahzell actually says is "no wizard ever born can control a hradani who's given himself to the Rage." The most significant two words of that sentence are "given himself." In other words, Brandark and Bahzell are not referring to a hradani who's been "taken" by the Rage.
...
Male are virtually immune to sorcery when they summon the Rage. Female hradani are not, because it's impossible for them to summon the Rage in the first place. This, as I'm sure you can see, could have some interesting (not to say ominous) implications for future events.


So first we must acknowledge that there are two different forms of rage. The original uncontrollable bloodlust that seems to have no effect on sorcery and the newer summoned version that does seem to make the hradani virtually immune to sorcery.
What that virtual immunity means though I am not sure. What I think that means is that they cannot be directly controlled or affected by sorcery. However they can still be harmed by the effects of sorcery. If a wizard collapses a roof on a hradani he will still be crushed. If a wizard creates a ball of fire and sends it at a hradani he will probably still be burned since although the fire's origin is sorcery that doesn't really change the fact that fire burns after it is in existance. The presence of a hradani in rage can disrupt the casting of spells by weak and/or inexperienced wizards, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are immune to all effects of all spells.
Top
Re: Brandark's God and other things.....
Post by Jaxomfaux   » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:13 pm

Jaxomfaux
Ensign

Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:03 pm

i say super-wizard since that's what innate linkage to the magic field + magical super-focus means to me.

thank you for the quote about brandark's importance. i was close in my memory.

i agree mostly with your breakdown based on weber's words. to me it still sounds like mostly immune is based on it takes a very skilled caster to overcome the effect. though i'd argue the magic conjured fireball would have no effect.... being magic.

and now i'll let my pet theory rest since it seems nobody thinks it's credible.
Top

Return to War God