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How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?

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How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by WiseMan999   » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:07 pm

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Just throwing this out there for general discussion.

Judging by the way the dwarves are going, they will probably end up inventing gunpowder. Once some quick-witted tinkerer with too much time on his hands realises you can use it to propel rounds far farther than conventional means can, this will have an effect on everyone. My question is, what do you think that effect will be on the hradani as a military force?

I personally am in two minds about this one. The guns (which will originally be quite weak) will probably negate some of the advantage hradani infantry will have over human infantry, as battles will no longer depend on swords - which can be swung faster and stronger by a Rage-taken hradani than a human, as well as hradani being able to use bigger swords anyway. You might also question whether the Rage would be able to slate its bloodthirst on the firing of guns rather than the slice of flesh under the sword. Then again, the Horse Stealers do use arbalests.

However, I think that the hradani will still have an advantage in their size and speed, as well as the Rage. Their enhanced energy-gathering abilities mean they can still march further and faster than humans, as well as carry more equipment. If the Rage enhances speed (Does it? Every time Bazhell uses the Rage he seems to get faster) then they will have an advantage there too, although obviously limited by the speed the actual weapon can reload.

I cannot decide whether guns would make the humans equal to hradani or whether they would still have advantages.

Awaiting comments
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by biochem   » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:08 am

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1. Early firearms were single shot weapons. Which meant for most practical purposes, one shot and then hand to hand. Eventually armys (the British in particular)developed tactics such as firing in shifts, but that takes time.

2. Early firearms were also notoriously inaccurate, had a high rate of failure etc.

3. Early firarms also had minimal range. So they'd have little time before the charging Hrandani overran their position.

For weapons to be an equalizer they would need to be multishot, accurate, long range etc.
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by rafael   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:18 am

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They would bring a new meaning to Hand Cannons. And if you remember There was a small visit by US Marines with gunpowder. I wonder if either Bazel or Wencit asked how their weapons worked?
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by Charles83   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:05 pm

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There are ways, I wont say it is not possible, but at the same time you have one element who always disrupt and slow down scientific progress, Magic, in little sometimes having a mage or any other kind of higher power who can make big Kabooms will be more valuable than firearms, also by the same magic if you make the skin of the target harder, early firearms wont have the penetration power to really damage their enemies, so while there could be a tinkerer working with firearms until they get to an advanced point in the development of this they would not be standard issue.

Of course this is RFC universe but it has a lot of similarities with some of the D&D rules and well after reading all of the books (D&D books), some of them are very good helping books on why early firearms are essentially useless in a society with magic, so I have a pretty idea on why for now this is not going to happen.

So while gunpowder can have an effect let me put it this way to you if you ever read the rules for rage in the barbarian class of D&D and sadly is exactly the same rage that the hradani have you will see that in some of the explanations that they give it make the user have more vitality be able to ignore damage and in some very hardened battle barbarians it could mean that their skin gets tougher, so an early firearms with a slow muzzle velocity and a round bullet wont be able to penetrate the skin of a hradani in rage in a certain distance they will need to wait for them to be even closer, and having them closer is dangerous, also the rage in D&D and in the RFC universe means they can ignore some light to moderate wounds because they can ignore pain, that means that if the bullet doesnt hit a major organ or kill them outright you just wasted your only chance, yes after they calm down from the rage the damage to their bodies can be so great that they die, but they wont fall in battle and they will be able to kill several of your soldiers.

So its hard to say that gunpowder will have a great effect on the hradani, more now that bahnak is making the hradani think and adopt modern day (to the rest of the world) strategies, I mean that are getting training on working as soldiers and having discipline, and that will counteract some of the effects that gunpowder can have on them.

Also another aspect that I just remembered now weird metals and weird effects, we are in a world were the Gods are fully real and interact directly with some mortals, they dont intervene but they interact, so the discoveries of some very rare metals and how to work them can give you armors that are very much immune to firearms, also if the blacksmith is so good making armor he could make something that it s what is called a masterwork armor that could be blessed directly by the Gods or that could be enchanted by Wencit of Rum again making it invulnerable to firearms, there could be an specific divine power that the God can grant their troops (like when tomanak give his blue fire to all the hradani who attacked the temple of sharna) so this troops are immune to firearms.

Well you see in a fantasy medieval setting with magic and divine power having a direct intervention on mortal affairs, the development of firearms is flawed so its hard to say that they will be effective, also I didn't put in this post how magic or different Gods could affect the weapons that already exist to make them even more effective (more than firearms) but I think you can grasp my idea.
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by shogun37   » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:35 pm

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If I remember my history correctly, it wasn't the musket that killed off the armored knight, but the welsh bow and the crossbow. Now, Bazel's arbelest is scary enough, but can you imagine some random dwarven tinkerer playing with it, or building horsestealer sized bows?
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by Thirdbase   » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:08 am

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shogun37 wrote:If I remember my history correctly, it wasn't the musket that killed off the armored knight, but the welsh bow and the crossbow. Now, Bazel's arbelest is scary enough, but can you imagine some random dwarven tinkerer playing with it, or building horsestealer sized bows?


If you want something truly scary, imagine Dwarven built Hradani compound bows.

Early gunpowder weapons were only useful for artillery. It took a long time to get to matchlocks and beyond. 200 years or so from the earliest "hand cannon" to matchlock, another 125-150 years for the flintlock.
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by shogun37   » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:13 am

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Thirdbase wrote:
shogun37 wrote:If I remember my history correctly, it wasn't the musket that killed off the armored knight, but the welsh bow and the crossbow. Now, Bazel's arbelest is scary enough, but can you imagine some random dwarven tinkerer playing with it, or building horsestealer sized bows?


If you want something truly scary, imagine Dwarven built Hradani compound bows.

Early gunpowder weapons were only useful for artillery. It took a long time to get to matchlocks and beyond. 200 years or so from the earliest "hand cannon" to matchlock, another 125-150 years for the flintlock.

Whag the dwarves did wasn't bad enough!!?? The new arqubeses(sp?) are frankly terrifying. Shorten the load time, and gunpowder won't be anything to bother with.
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by shogun37   » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:14 am

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Thirdbase wrote:
shogun37 wrote:If I remember my history correctly, it wasn't the musket that killed off the armored knight, but the welsh bow and the crossbow. Now, Bazel's arbelest is scary enough, but can you imagine some random dwarven tinkerer playing with it, or building horsestealer sized bows?


If you want something truly scary, imagine Dwarven built Hradani compound bows.

Early gunpowder weapons were only useful for artillery. It took a long time to get to matchlocks and beyond. 200 years or so from the earliest "hand cannon" to matchlock, another 125-150 years for the flintlock.

Whag the dwarves did wasn't bad enough!!?? The new arqubeses(sp?) are frankly terrifying. Shorten the load time, and gunpowder won't be anything to bother with.
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by jasjohnie   » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:17 pm

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In battles will no longer depend on swords, which can be swung faster and stronger by a human, as well as being able to use bigger swords anyway.
“Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
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Re: How would Gunpowder affect the Hradani?
Post by fester   » Tue May 21, 2013 7:27 am

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shogun37 wrote: Whag the dwarves did wasn't bad enough!!?? The new arqubeses(sp?) are frankly terrifying. Shorten the load time, and gunpowder won't be anything to bother with.


The advantage of early fire-arms over long bows was that it was far easier to get a quasi-competent conscript who could load and fire a arquebus a couple of times and then get in the way of a sword during a melee than training a vaguely competent longbowman (who since he is highly trained, you as a commander actually need to adapt tactics to protect instead of using as a shock absorber in the melee).

Crossbows are a much lower level of skill to use quasi-competently than a long bow, so the differential on mobilization values against early fire arms is not as pronounced.
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