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Where are warp points, and what are the different types

Set in the Starfire strategy game universe, co-authored by David and Steve White, these novels feature the clash of the Terran Federation, the cat-like Orions, the genocidal Rigelians, and the "Bugs"...join us in the discussion!
Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by NHBL   » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:12 pm

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The Starfire universe has different types of warp points; I recall someone mentioning suspecting they were looking for, I think it was, a Type 6. (I'm familiar with the difference between open and closed warp points. Is there any source detailing the differences in types of warp points, and how they tend to be distributed within a solar system? (Close to the Primary, in the outer reaches, etc?) and how long it can take to find the various warp points? How rare are systems with just one or two? How rare are systems with a LOT?

I’m liking the warp point structure as the framework for a space going RPG, and having the way Warp Points work sketched out will make putting a section of a campaign universe together much easier.

(And is there much, if anything, on the distance they tend to cover in real space? Real Space distances will be important, as there will be an alternative drive system more like a warp drive. Warp ships BLOW UP if they try to use a warp point—the EM surge destabilizes the antimatter containment, and without antimatter, no warp drive)

Thanks!
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by munroburton   » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:11 am

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No real hard and fast rules, IIRC. The novels mention up to fourteen types. There might be rules for the board game, but I've never played those.

The beginning of the Shiva Option follows a cut-off survey force as they flee through a warp chain. They talk about most warp points being in the outer system, although the mission commander "had a feeling" and was looking for a type which was particularly common in inner systems.

Time to find a warp point varies between "It's right there, sticking out like a sore thumb" to never, as closed warp points can only be spotted when someone comes through it. Someone at one point theorises that closed-closed warp point connections are the commonest kind, but cannot be discovered except by accident. There are open warp point types which are difficult to detect.
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by NHBL   » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:47 am

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The Shiva Option's cut off force was what gave me the info about different warp points, and I was hoping that there was more information somewhere. It also makes me wonder if some "closed" warp points are merely undetectable with existing technology, and will become detectable as new tech shows up. After all, if some are very hard t find now, they might have been effectively impossible to find earlier.

Warp Points have an advantage, for gaming purposes, over other FTL drives, because there's no need to a 3D map :) Also, with Warp Points, the GM knows which systems are accessible within a game session...
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by munroburton   » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:51 pm

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Detection of closed warp points wasn't possible in the Exodus sequels. I don't think there's a classification list of warp point types anywhere - it'd be with Starfire game source material if it was anywhere.

Studies of warp points would become relatively simple after a while. Because whilst there's a connection between point A and point B, that has no effect on what types they are - entering a type 2 could exit out of any of the umpteen types. Any research effort merely has to explore through easily found warp points until they find all the other types, even the closed ones.

I'm not sure, but I think some warp points may be in elliptical orbits around their primaries. That means the 3D element isn't eliminated, though from a game perspective it's still a lot easier than integrating sublight and hyperspace maps.
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by jchilds   » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:46 pm

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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by skipper2233   » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:46 am

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Without giving away game mechanics specifically (Not my game, not my property. Though if you can find a couple friends willing to try, it is worth the buy. Wish my buddies still played.) it works like this. As your..uh...we'll just call them survey systems improve, it becomes easier for them to compute where warp points in a system are. Closed Warp Points are basically ones you can't detect because you haven't gotten that far. There's mechanics for how "big" of a ship can pass through them, and how difficult it is to find them.

(CONJECTURE FOLLOWS) I think DW/SW simplified the former into just "the grav surge" of transit, or the tidal stresses, however you'd like to put it. With that assumption, Types 1-14, 15, et cetera are just numerical designations for the different combinations of visibility and "stress" of a given warp point. I.E. maybe a type one is easy to find, and easy to navigate, but a type 2 is harder to find, but still easy to navigate, blah blah ad infinitum.

As for hard definitions on the Terran's designations, IIRC there isn't one besides Type 14 being closed/undetectable. It's also possible that DW/SW completely threw out the gameplay mechanics in favor of their own, completely separate system.

As for where they lay in a system, it does depend on star size and type, although the novels don't go into too much detail asides from the excerpt you mentioned, and that the more massive the star, the more WPs it has. Usually.

Hope this helps!!
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by coldsteel   » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:29 pm

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Actually, DW/SW use the current 3rdR rules for warp points. Per Shiva Option, Somers was looking for a 'type 7' which, in the rules, only show up within 90 LM of a primary star. Newer versions of Starfire (Galactic, Ultra, Solar) simplified warp points and made it easier as you get more advanced in technology. The novels' 'ruleset' never allows for detection of closed WPs without transiting them. Also, most players ignored the transit limits in 3rdR, but different 'marks' of warp points could show up at differing ranges from the primary star.
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:41 pm

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skipper2233 wrote:Without giving away game mechanics specifically (Not my game, not my property. Though if you can find a couple friends willing to try, it is worth the buy. Wish my buddies still played.) it works like this. As your..uh...we'll just call them survey systems improve, it becomes easier for them to compute where warp points in a system are. Closed Warp Points are basically ones you can't detect because you haven't gotten that far. There's mechanics for how "big" of a ship can pass through them, and how difficult it is to find them.

(CONJECTURE FOLLOWS) I think DW/SW simplified the former into just "the grav surge" of transit, or the tidal stresses, however you'd like to put it. With that assumption, Types 1-14, 15, et cetera are just numerical designations for the different combinations of visibility and "stress" of a given warp point. I.E. maybe a type one is easy to find, and easy to navigate, but a type 2 is harder to find, but still easy to navigate, blah blah ad infinitum.

As for hard definitions on the Terran's designations, IIRC there isn't one besides Type 14 being closed/undetectable. It's also possible that DW/SW completely threw out the gameplay mechanics in favor of their own, completely separate system.

As for where they lay in a system, it does depend on star size and type, although the novels don't go into too much detail asides from the excerpt you mentioned, and that the more massive the star, the more WPs it has. Usually.

Hope this helps!!
I only read Exodus and Extremis once (and it's been a while); so I don't remember them as well as the original 4; but IIRC the max transit tonnage for various wormhole types comes up in those new books.

I don't remember if it calls out a wormhole by type when it does it, but it does (again IIRC) mention at least one wormhole too small for the then largest ships to transit. So Steve White did pull in restrictions about how "big" a ship can use a given wormhole once it became interesting to the plot to do so.
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by coldsteel   » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:37 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:I don't remember if it calls out a wormhole by type when it does it, but it does (again IIRC) mention at least one wormhole too small for the then largest ships to transit. So Steve White did pull in restrictions about how "big" a ship can use a given wormhole once it became interesting to the plot to do so.


Actually, per the game rules, SW's only broken out these restrictions because tech has progressed enough where the hull size is meeting the limits of the points.
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Re: Where are warp points, and what are the different types
Post by Roguevictory   » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:20 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
skipper2233 wrote:Without giving away game mechanics specifically (Not my game, not my property. Though if you can find a couple friends willing to try, it is worth the buy. Wish my buddies still played.) it works like this. As your..uh...we'll just call them survey systems improve, it becomes easier for them to compute where warp points in a system are. Closed Warp Points are basically ones you can't detect because you haven't gotten that far. There's mechanics for how "big" of a ship can pass through them, and how difficult it is to find them.

(CONJECTURE FOLLOWS) I think DW/SW simplified the former into just "the grav surge" of transit, or the tidal stresses, however you'd like to put it. With that assumption, Types 1-14, 15, et cetera are just numerical designations for the different combinations of visibility and "stress" of a given warp point. I.E. maybe a type one is easy to find, and easy to navigate, but a type 2 is harder to find, but still easy to navigate, blah blah ad infinitum.

As for hard definitions on the Terran's designations, IIRC there isn't one besides Type 14 being closed/undetectable. It's also possible that DW/SW completely threw out the gameplay mechanics in favor of their own, completely separate system.

As for where they lay in a system, it does depend on star size and type, although the novels don't go into too much detail asides from the excerpt you mentioned, and that the more massive the star, the more WPs it has. Usually.

Hope this helps!!
I only read Exodus and Extremis once (and it's been a while); so I don't remember them as well as the original 4; but IIRC the max transit tonnage for various wormhole types comes up in those new books.

I don't remember if it calls out a wormhole by type when it does it, but it does (again IIRC) mention at least one wormhole too small for the then largest ships to transit. So Steve White did pull in restrictions about how "big" a ship can use a given wormhole once it became interesting to the plot to do so.


Yeah the new classes of superheavy ships are so big they can't use most warp points without specialized gear enhancing the point. IMO this this means it is defintely time to start focusing a lot more on better ships of the same size rather then bigger ships but we'll see.
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