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[SPOILERS] BSRA "data anomalies", July 892

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[SPOILERS] BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by David Blyth   » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:54 pm

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I'm new to this forum so pardon me if this has already been addressed. At any rate, I'm curious as to why the 'data anomalies' OWL noted in BSRA haven't been pursued by TFT.

To quote the pertinent section of BSRA....

"There are additional anomalies, Lieutenant Commander," he [OWL] informed Merlin.

"Well," Merlin said twenty seconds later, what sort of additional anomalies did you discover? And how many of them are there?"

"All of the anomalies discovered fall into the same category as those already know, Lieutenant Commander. They consist of colonists who appear to have been assigned to multiple enclaves. In all cases, the enclave listed in Dr. Pei's roster is Alexandria. In Administrator Langhorne's roster, they are assigned to several different enclaves. I have detected a total of two hundred and twelve such anomalies."


Note that when Merlin ran into Nimue Athrawes, the sisters of Seijin Khody merged their resources in with those of the Inner Circle (Merlin, Cayleb, Staynair, & Sharleyan, at a min). And Khody was not one of the data anomalies as he switched sides after the Rakuri strike.

Assume the Jeremiah Knowles' family counts as four anomalies. But those four people left enough evidence to boot strap Saint Zherneau's. What did the other 208 people leave as Dr. Pei's additional insurance policy?

More importantly, why hasn't Merlin attempted to track them down by the end of TFT? Seems like they could have useful info (like how to get into the key) or at the least they could provide further assistance to Merlin, et all.

Or has something happened and Weber simply doesn't want us to know what it is yet?
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Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by thanatos   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:34 am

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David Blyth wrote:I'm new to this forum so pardon me if this has already been addressed. At any rate, I'm curious as to why the 'data anomalies' OWL noted in BSRA haven't been pursued by TFT.

To quote the pertinent section of BSRA....

"There are additional anomalies, Lieutenant Commander," he [OWL] informed Merlin.

"Well," Merlin said twenty seconds later, what sort of additional anomalies did you discover? And how many of them are there?"

"All of the anomalies discovered fall into the same category as those already know, Lieutenant Commander. They consist of colonists who appear to have been assigned to multiple enclaves. In all cases, the enclave listed in Dr. Pei's roster is Alexandria. In Administrator Langhorne's roster, they are assigned to several different enclaves. I have detected a total of two hundred and twelve such anomalies."


Note that when Merlin ran into Nimue Athrawes, the sisters of Seijin Khody merged their resources in with those of the Inner Circle (Merlin, Cayleb, Staynair, & Sharleyan, at a min). And Khody was not one of the data anomalies as he switched sides after the Rakuri strike.

Assume the Jeremiah Knowles' family counts as four anomalies. But those four people left enough evidence to boot strap Saint Zherneau's. What did the other 208 people leave as Dr. Pei's additional insurance policy?

More importantly, why hasn't Merlin attempted to track them down by the end of TFT? Seems like they could have useful info (like how to get into the key) or at the least they could provide further assistance to Merlin, et all.

Or has something happened and Weber simply doesn't want us to know what it is yet?


RFC also commented in the past that Knowles and his family were an exception in their success. Remember that Saint Zherneau left orders to unseal his diary and the other documents from the vault 400 years after his death. Either he knew or expected that literacy would become rarer, which would impart a certain sanctity upon the text that the future abbot would have no choice but to accept - but he could not know for certain, so it was still a crap shoot. The abbot who finally opened the vault was shocked by its content and was tempted to simply hand it over to the Church for condemnation and destruction (in the end he didn't of course).

From what Merlin could learn and guess, Pei Shan-wei had intended to train thousands more such agents, so that they would become a movement among the colonists that would undermine the Church in the future. Yet she was stopped far short of her target (indeed, its entirely possible her retention of the NEATs was what pushed Langhorne or Chihiro to launch the kinetic strike on Alexandria). So they were grossly outnumbered when the WATF broke out. It's possible many of them died during that conflict while others went deeper undercover and did not pass on their knowledge to their children.

And remember that at the beginning of HFQ, Staynair comments that the perspective of the SSK is radically different. Their opposition to the Church stems from the example of the Saint Kohdy, their suspicions regarding the circumstances of his death, the way the Church purged the very memory of him after all the Adams and Eves who knew him died and the destruction of their original monastery by a rakurai strike. Ultimately, not all of the Sisters were prepared for the truth that they knew (and suffered unfortunate "accidents") and not all of those who were prepared for it could accept the truth the Inner Circle knew about. Their ultimate goal was to try and influence the Church towards reform really and perhaps to expose the truth about Saint Kohdy's death and the erasure of his memory. They weren't contemplating the toppling of the Church at all.
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Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by Julia Minor   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:17 pm

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Between the Jihad, the borderline civil war in Siddarmark, and the full-fledged civil war in North Harchong, I'd question whether there's enough continuity in the church baptism/marriage/death records for even Owl and Nahrmahn to trace the descendants of the other 208 sleeper agents. SNARC remotes can't sort through records that are piles of ashes.

And as Thanatos notes, many of the others could have died before (or without) passing on their knowledge. Since most of the enclaves were on the mainland when humans first settled Safehold, odds are many of the "sleeper cells" were on the mainland as well. Post-Rakurai, those people would have been at much greater risk than Jeremiah Knowles and his family in distant Tellesburg.
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Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:11 pm

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Probably just simple statistics. Let's not forget, that there was War Against The Fallen soon afterward, and about 1000 years of history.

Some of Shain-Wei "sleepers" might just die before they were able to figure out how to give their knowledge to their heirs. Some may decide to support the "fallen" during the war, and did not survive it. Some may succeed to preserve the knowledge for some time, but either eventually their succession line broke on some chain and the knowledge was forgotten - or the Church found out about their "heresy".

It is even possible, that there were some attempts of "sleeper"'s successors to actually reveal the truth - suppressed by the Church. After all, the Inquisition obviously have SOMETHING to actually do during all that centuries before Charis crisis! It is hardly believable that Inquisition could remain in power if there were no actual heretics to catch since War Against the Fallen.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:28 pm

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David Blyth wrote:
More importantly, why hasn't Merlin attempted to track them down by the end of TFT? Seems like they could have useful info (like how to get into the key) or at the least they could provide further assistance to Merlin, et all.


Because it would be highly time & resource-consuming process with very limited chances of success. How exactly Merlin could track them? There are no planet-wide database, which he could use. The Church probably have some birth records, but considering that almost ten centuries passed since, such records would inevitably be of limited use. Record books would be accidentally or purposely destroyed, or just not renewed in time. Or could be falsified - for example, by sleeper's themselves, to hide their existence even better.

Basically, it would require enormous efforts on Owl side to put his remotes into nearly every archive on Safehold, copy every record book, and try to figure out who could be who and who could correspond with some of those 208 sleepers. At best, it would give some pretty lousy correlations with probably millions of peoples on modern Safehold.

So the probability of success are very low, and the benefits of efforts are rather unclear. Even if Owl manages to find some descendants of the sleepers, then what? They are just descendants; there are no reason to assume that being related to some sleeper 1000 years ago means that said descendants are truth-keepers now. After all, Jeremiah Knowles did not entrust the truth to his descendants; he entrusted it to the future members of religious society that he founded, which clearly weren't his relatives. So just finding descendants would serve no practical reason besides genealogical study.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by Whitecold   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:42 pm

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I guess the biggest question would be, why bother? Anything special the sleepers could have known likely is also in the database in Nimues Cave.
Dr. Pei lucked out with Jeremiah Knowles, giving Merlin the support he needed. The inner circle can recruit as many more people as they need now.
If any other caches survived is historically interesting, but unlikely to bring new insights that help get past the OBS or shine light on what happened after the Alexandria Strike.
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Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:54 pm

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Whitecold wrote:If any other caches survived is historically interesting, but unlikely to bring new insights that help get past the OBS or shine light on what happened after the Alexandria Strike.


They actually could shine some light on the second question. But, with the probability of finding them so low, it's just not worth the efforts.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by Julia Minor   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 am

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Dilandu wrote:The Church probably have some birth records, {snip}



The Church definitely has birth records. Remember when Dialydd Mab left his first message for Clyntahn? Rayno was positive that "Mab" was a pseudonym meant to keep the Inquisition from digging his real identity out of parish records, and those records would have revealed "Mab"'s entire family.

If the Church is using parchment for those records, then they should hold up reasonably well assuming no one dropped a couple dozen angle-gun shells on the church in question during the Jihad. The Domesday Book is older than even the oldest possible CoGA parish records, and it's still around. If they're using paper, they may have needed to be recopied a few times. Presumably they would have wanted to copy them correctly, but errors happen.

Either way you're right about the workload involved in a whole-planet search.
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Re: BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by isaac_newton   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:54 am

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Julia Minor wrote:
Dilandu wrote:The Church probably have some birth records, {snip}



The Church definitely has birth records. Remember when Dialydd Mab left his first message for Clyntahn? Rayno was positive that "Mab" was a pseudonym meant to keep the Inquisition from digging his real identity out of parish records, and those records would have revealed "Mab"'s entire family.

If the Church is using parchment for those records, then they should hold up reasonably well assuming no one dropped a couple dozen angle-gun shells on the church in question during the Jihad. The Domesday Book is older than even the oldest possible CoGA parish records, and it's still around. If they're using paper, they may have needed to be recopied a few times. Presumably they would have wanted to copy them correctly, but errors happen.

Either way you're right about the workload involved in a whole-planet search.



Accurate records are the life blood of any bureaucracy! Taxes, tithes all flow from those just for a start! :-)
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Re: [SPOILERS] BSRA "data anomalies", July 892
Post by noblehunter   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:20 am

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After a thousand years of war, disasters, pests, and human error, the records could still have holes in them. I wonder if the Writ included instructions on document preservation? Or if the tradition of the Testimonies encouraged people to spell out assumptions and "common knowledge" so that historians would be better able to use diaries as primary sources. I know if I was creating a religion that had diaries as primary texts, I'd make it a religious requirement not to be cryptic due to familiarity.
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