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How do you rate TFT?

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by captinjoehenry   » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:12 pm

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I enjoyed the book but honestly it mostly felt like a necessary bridge book between the previous series and the next one as a lot of the details in this book are needed.
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by roboz6   » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:59 pm

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As a long time Weber fan, and in particular Safehold, I must say that after the long wait for TFT I was very disappointed. And it seems the fan base feels the same. This series which started out so excellently is now dragging beyond endurance.

I have looked through the reviews on Amazon and the overall rating stands at just 3.1 stars. 56% of reviewes give TFT a rating of 3 stars or less. The message: pull your socks up David, your fans are growing restless.

Will I buy Safehold 11 - of course I will but it will be reluctantly if David doesn't pick up the pace.
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by isaac_newton   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:33 am

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roboz6 wrote:As a long time Weber fan, and in particular Safehold, I must say that after the long wait for TFT I was very disappointed. And it seems the fan base feels the same. This series which started out so excellently is now dragging beyond endurance.

I have looked through the reviews on Amazon and the overall rating stands at just 3.1 stars. 56% of reviewes give TFT a rating of 3 stars or less. The message: pull your socks up David, your fans are growing restless.

Will I buy Safehold 11 - of course I will but it will be reluctantly if David doesn't pick up the pace.


well, I must say that I rather disagree with you.. so the wider fan base is not necessarily thinking the same as you.

I particularly enjoyed that last chapter [as I have said several times].

The one thing I will say, is that it would not be a good place for a new reader to start! But then, thats going to be true for any large series.
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by dobriennm   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:40 pm

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roboz6 wrote:
As a long time Weber fan, and in particular Safehold, I must say that after the long wait for TFT I was very disappointed. And it seems the fan base feels the same. This series which started out so excellently is now dragging beyond endurance.

I have looked through the reviews on Amazon and the overall rating stands at just 3.1 stars. 56% of reviewes give TFT a rating of 3 stars or less. The message: pull your socks up David, your fans are growing restless.

Will I buy Safehold 11 - of course I will but it will be reluctantly if David doesn't pick up the pace.

captinjoehenry wrote:
I enjoyed the book but honestly it mostly felt like a necessary bridge book between the previous series and the next one as a lot of the details in this book are needed.


These two quotes probably encapsulate most Weber fans feelings (some feeling both simultaneously).

The first quote is, in my view, correct - the pace of David Weber's books has gotten very slow (both Safehold and Honorverse). The trouble is, the Author's Universes are extremely complex, weaving together multiple good guys/bad guys (with complex motivations) on an extremely huge physical "map" with widely different societies over decades time frame. Trying to cover that will always mean many big books. I mean, how many books (and years) did it take to go from "On Basilik Station" to "Uncompromising Honor"? 30+ books? 25+ years?

Honestly, I'm not sure there's another science fiction writer ever who's tried (and accomplished) that. Eric Flint in the 1632 series probably comes closest (and David Weber was coauthor to the start of the series, by the way).


The second quote is also correct, the Author had to make a bridge book. To do otherwise would be like writing a series that starts in 1910 with a book stopping at the end of World War I and then starting the next book with the German invasion of Poland and depending on flashbacks to go over the twenty years between World War I and II, covering the Versailles Treaty, The Russian Revolution, formation of the USSR, the Great Depression, Hitler's rise, etc.

Which for all of you wanting the next Honorverse novel, we're all going to be somewhat disappointed as it won't advance the story and get into the action as much as we want. It's also suppose to start ~20 years from the last book. Just like in the real world, nothing goes into hiatus. All the players present in the last book are going to continue scheming/plotting/living/dying and you will need some kind of transition book for the Honorverse.

Note, the Author always had plans for these 20 year "jumps". Unfortunately, the best laid plans never survive contact with the "enemy". In this case, the "enemy" is the Authors own complex Universes which attempt to have the same complexity as real life. The Author even admits that his original plan to do flashbacks as fill-in didn't work.

So everyone prepare for a transition book for the next Honorverse book (not counting any prequel books).
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by captinjoehenry   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:14 pm

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Pretty much yeah. ATSOT was a great action packed book but with the next arc happening 15+ years in the future from the end of the last book requires a bridge book. It's not as interesting as the most recent Safehold books and especially not as action packed but it was frankly needed to provide the background for the next series. Honestly I think there might have been something to hold TFT from publishing until the first book in the next arc is ready as I really feel after finishing TFT what I most want is to read the next book which hasn't been the case before simply because I want to view what all the set up in TFT is actually for in the next arc.
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by roboz6   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:24 pm

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Well yes I agree, not all of the fan base is thinking this way. After all Amazon shows 30% of reviewers rate TFT with 5 stars and 44% rate it 4 stars or better. That kind of spread will always tend to be the case. But there is still an underlying message for David and his publisher that a significant percentage of fans are to use the word I used before - restless.

And yes I agree that TFT is a bridge setting the stage for the next arc. But nevertheless, the pace and the lack of action is such that, in my opinion, TFT was not one of Himself's best efforts. And as I also said, that will not stop me from investing my time and money in Safehold 11, but I can still wish that we could get a move on and start to come to grips with the Gbaba.
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:48 pm

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I don't really care much about the Gbaba, like faceless murder machines....not anything like as interesting as dragging Safehold up, the antics and tragedies of Merlin and the mortals who make their tales touch you, etc :)

Wanna see the Two Emperors and the Siddermark Scum get their arses handed to them :mrgreen:
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by runsforcelery   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:16 pm

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roboz6 wrote:Well yes I agree, not all of the fan base is thinking this way. After all Amazon shows 30% of reviewers rate TFT with 5 stars and 44% rate it 4 stars or better. That kind of spread will always tend to be the case. But there is still an underlying message for David and his publisher that a significant percentage of fans are to use the word I used before - restless.

And yes I agree that TFT is a bridge setting the stage for the next arc. But nevertheless, the pace and the lack of action is such that, in my opinion, TFT was not one of Himself's best efforts. And as I also said, that will not stop me from investing my time and money in Safehold 11, but I can still wish that we could get a move on and start to come to grips with the Gbaba.

Can't win, can I? :P



Take the time to give you all the juicy details and character development, and the book drags. Cover 15 years in a single volume, and it's a "bridge book" (which, to be honest, it is) and I didn't show you all the neat stuff you wanted to see. :roll: :lol:

Truth time: I write the books and the story the way I think they need to be written and told. Sometimes readers think that knocks it out of the park; sometimes not so much. End of the day, I have to be satisfied with what I've done if I'm going to continue the story.

Now, I had some significant health issues when writing the last couple of HH and Safehold books (prior to Uncompromising Honor and, to some extent, TFT). ATSOT got hammered less badly by that than some other projects, because I had more of it laid out in detail in my head and notes before I got started on it, but it was definitely a factor. That doesn't mean I would have told the stories differently (and Shadow of Freedom was setting up a major part of the post Solarian War plot development, which is one reason it went some of the places it went), but it does mean that I might have told them better, if you see the distinction.

The bottom line is that books will be however long (or short) feels "right" to me, and that may not always be a given reader's (or group of readers') cup of tea. I'm okay with that. I've been doing this for 30 years now and I'm still learning my craft (hopefully I'll always be learning my craft), and I always try to listen to my readers. Unlike certain PITA well known writers who shall remain nameless, :roll: I think reader feedback is essential, especially in a long running series. But I am the conductor of this particular orchestra, and the pieces will be performed in the way that suits my ear until the day I finally hang up the baton.

So there! :twisted: :lol:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by captinjoehenry   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:18 pm

captinjoehenry
Lieutenant Commander

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You do you man. So far the results speak for themselves! Can't wait for the next book though. Really want to see where all this set up leads :P
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Re: How do you rate TFT?
Post by roboz6   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:51 pm

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Oh My! On the one hand I feel flattered that RFC (David) himself has responded to some of my comments, and on the other hand I feel contrite and chagrined that David feels miffed in response to all of his hard work.

As David rightly says:

The bottom line is that books will be however long (or short) feels "right" to me, and that may not always be a given reader's (or group of readers') cup of tea. I'm okay with that. I've been doing this for 30 years now and I'm still learning my craft (hopefully I'll always be learning my craft), and I always try to listen to my readers. Unlike certain PITA well known writers who shall remain nameless, :roll: I think reader feedback is essential, especially in a long running series. But I am the conductor of this particular orchestra, and the pieces will be performed in the way that suits my ear until the day I finally hang up the baton.

So there! :twisted: :lol:


At the end of the day, I, and I am sure many others of the Safehold fans, just love this series so much - dare I say addicted to it - that we just can't wait to get into the next instalment.

And I must also agree with:

SilverbladeTE wrote:I don't really care much about the Gbaba, like faceless murder machines....not anything like as interesting as dragging Safehold up, the antics and tragedies of Merlin and the mortals who make their tales touch you, etc :)

Wanna see the Two Emperors and the Siddermark Scum get their arses handed to them :mrgreen:


So David, don't you dare die before you finish this series! And I pray as well that I don't die in the meantime and miss out on getting to read the entire series.
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