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**major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document...

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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by WeberFan   » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:09 am

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JBNL1972 wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:Hmmm . . . wonder why the Sisters of St. Khody never made a single appearance in TFT?

Left hand, right hand, man behind the curtain . . .

Think it could have been one of the above?

:twisted: :twisted:


Thank you, now I keep wondering just how highly placed their informant was that told them to skedaddle to their hidden abbey, and how much higher that warning started .... and whether that warning came with more than just verbal advice but perhaps records to preserve, sealed inside a certain tomb.

Well played sir, well played.
Eagerly awaiting the next book!


I SEEM to recall some textev that explained where the warning came from. I'll have to go back and look. More than likely my mind is playing tricks on me, but it's that niggling thought in the back of my brain that triggered when I read your response...
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:56 am

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WeberFan wrote:
JBNL1972 wrote:
Thank you, now I keep wondering just how highly placed their informant was that told them to skedaddle to their hidden abbey, and how much higher that warning started .... and whether that warning came with more than just verbal advice but perhaps records to preserve, sealed inside a certain tomb.

Well played sir, well played.
Eagerly awaiting the next book!


I SEEM to recall some textev that explained where the warning came from. I'll have to go back and look. More than likely my mind is playing tricks on me, but it's that niggling thought in the back of my brain that triggered when I read your response...


IIRC, the then-abbess was tipped off by her brother or similar relative who was a vicar. It never said the mechanism used but logic infers verbal or written note as most likely medium.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by WeberFan   » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:33 pm

WeberFan
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PlaysWithBees wrote:
WeberFan wrote:
I SEEM to recall some textev that explained where the warning came from. I'll have to go back and look. More than likely my mind is playing tricks on me, but it's that niggling thought in the back of my brain that triggered when I read your response...


IIRC, the then-abbess was tipped off by her brother or similar relative who was a vicar. It never said the mechanism used but logic infers verbal or written note as most likely medium.

Bingo.

My recollection as well. ;)
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by GregD   » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:56 am

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runsforcelery wrote:Hmmm . . . wonder why the Sisters of St. Khody never made a single appearance in TFT?

Left hand, right hand, man behind the curtain . . .

Think it could have been one of the above?

:twisted: :twisted:


With all due respect, if, as seems to be the case, this really was a ploy by the Inner Circle, they're idiots.

They just stopped hyperventilating about worries of a Return by someone who could control the bombardment system, and so they engage in activity that could offer big enough energy readings that would trigger the Return of someone who could control the bombardment system?

WTF?
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by kaid   » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:11 am

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GregD wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:Hmmm . . . wonder why the Sisters of St. Khody never made a single appearance in TFT?

Left hand, right hand, man behind the curtain . . .

Think it could have been one of the above?

:twisted: :twisted:


With all due respect, if, as seems to be the case, this really was a ploy by the Inner Circle, they're idiots.

They just stopped hyperventilating about worries of a Return by someone who could control the bombardment system, and so they engage in activity that could offer big enough energy readings that would trigger the Return of someone who could control the bombardment system?

WTF?


Actually it is unlikely that this display would provoke the bombardment system. Basically what owl/naharman did was the same type of visitation all the archangels did. Using the same technology in the same way so it makes sense that the system would be keyed not to blast any archangel making an appearance. It basically is the perfect wheel spike to apply to the church. It gets the truth out in a way that cannot be ignored. We have textev that the inquisition has some kind of recordings of schuler and his voice and image. So when he appears in front of them in light and fury they know damn well it is the "real thing" or as real of a thing as they have ever in their history been shown using the same techniques and tools to do it.

The holy book is made in the same "godly" way all the original holy texts are made. They have zero reason not to fully believe that this is legit and now the one faction of the church tasked to fight heresy is basically now commanded by their archangel of their order to disperse this new learning.

With 80 years to spread this combined with the technology operation androcles likely is going to be a huge push to the end game merlin has always been aiming for. Revealing the truth of what happened at the creation of their world to the people. In doing so once that spreads far enough it allows charis to more openly operate for the IC and any future angel that appears is going to be faced with a world with near full adoption of advanced steam engine technology/large segments of the population now embracing the actual truth. Regardless of what happens to charis at that point the genie is not only out of the bottle but it smashed its bottle to bits. There is no way if they get the full 80 years for this stuff to spread that a future angel could possibly kill enough people to put things back to their plan. How that angel will react to this its hard to say but short of just killing everybody they may not have much choice other than to just accept it.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by Theemile   » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:44 pm

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kaid wrote:
Actually it is unlikely that this display would provoke the bombardment system. Basically what owl/naharman did was the same type of visitation all the archangels did. Using the same technology in the same way so it makes sense that the system would be keyed not to blast any archangel making an appearance. It basically is the perfect wheel spike to apply to the church. It gets the truth out in a way that cannot be ignored. We have textev that the inquisition has some kind of recordings of schuler and his voice and image. So when he appears in front of them in light and fury they know damn well it is the "real thing" or as real of a thing as they have ever in their history been shown using the same techniques and tools to do it.

The holy book is made in the same "godly" way all the original holy texts are made. They have zero reason not to fully believe that this is legit and now the one faction of the church tasked to fight heresy is basically now commanded by their archangel of their order to disperse this new learning.

With 80 years to spread this combined with the technology operation androcles likely is going to be a huge push to the end game merlin has always been aiming for. Revealing the truth of what happened at the creation of their world to the people. In doing so once that spreads far enough it allows charis to more openly operate for the IC and any future angel that appears is going to be faced with a world with near full adoption of advanced steam engine technology/large segments of the population now embracing the actual truth. Regardless of what happens to charis at that point the genie is not only out of the bottle but it smashed its bottle to bits. There is no way if they get the full 80 years for this stuff to spread that a future angel could possibly kill enough people to put things back to their plan. How that angel will react to this its hard to say but short of just killing everybody they may not have much choice other than to just accept it.


Random Thoughts....

Will Schuler's Testamonies introduce to the history of safehold the Guardian Angels- Mighty warriors which strode through the stars, carrying God's own Rakurai, tasked by God to defend Langhorn, the Arcangels, and the Adams and Eves on their journey to Safehold? And how they Sacrificed themselves to a "Man" defending all that was holy from the true, evil demons in the universe, the Gabba, and using their deaths to hide Mankind from evil.

Will the special sacrifice of the Guardian Angel Nimue be mentioned, who while dying, fighting off the Gabba, allowed her soul to be frozen by Shanwei so one day she could return to again defend Safehold in it's time of Darkness.

Will the great evil - The corrupting Gabba be mentioned? Will the new testament of Schuler let us know how the fear of the Gabba corrupted Chihiro, clouding his judgement, and when he lost the leadership of Langhorn, drove him to lie as he did out of fear, and write the testimonies which held down man?
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by kaid   » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:55 pm

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I would imagine the testament of schuler probably cleaves pretty close to what the original inner circle had prior to merlin showing up. You don't want wind up founding a second fake religion trying to break the first fake religion. Setting up another false history does you no favors for the end game. Their goal has to be getting the full honest truth out there and this seems like a good way and opportunity to do so. Due to the verifier they had high quality copies of Schuler's voice/image.

Putting the truth that the bretheren had directly into the hands of the inquisition handed down to them by their "patron archangel" is probably one of the cleverest ways to do so. Have the people who you would normally be worried about attacking heresy being the ones promoting it basically. And a lot of people regardless of how they feel about the inquisition would have to think if these guys are accepting it then it probably has to be real.

Now you take that and have it run its course for 80 years by the time any sleeping angels wake up a large faction of the worlds population now now knows the truth.


If you try to make up some kind of mystical cover for it that just makes it more vulnerable to being cast in doubt down the line because eventually the lies would come out. Stick to the truth and you are arguing from much firmer ground.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by kaid   » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:02 pm

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Also using the same basic text as the brethren had allows the IC in the end to point to that going we were handed down this information long ago to guard and protect it until the world was ready for the truth. Since they can point to it being "archangel approved" that helps fix a lot of problems they were going to bump into eventually.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by isaac_newton   » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:41 am

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kaid wrote:I would imagine the testament of schuler probably cleaves pretty close to what the original inner circle had prior to merlin showing up. You don't want wind up founding a second fake religion trying to break the first fake religion. Setting up another false history does you no favors for the end game. Their goal has to be getting the full honest truth out there and this seems like a good way and opportunity to do so. Due to the verifier they had high quality copies of Schuler's voice/image.

Putting the truth that the bretheren had directly into the hands of the inquisition handed down to them by their "patron archangel" is probably one of the cleverest ways to do so. Have the people who you would normally be worried about attacking heresy being the ones promoting it basically. And a lot of people regardless of how they feel about the inquisition would have to think if these guys are accepting it then it probably has to be real.

Now you take that and have it run its course for 80 years by the time any sleeping angels wake up a large faction of the worlds population now now knows the truth.


If you try to make up some kind of mystical cover for it that just makes it more vulnerable to being cast in doubt down the line because eventually the lies would come out. Stick to the truth and you are arguing from much firmer ground.


I can see a LOT [in all countries in Safegold] of people seeing this as a diabolic intervention by Shan Wei directly in the world, emulating Langhorne's modus operandi [lights, special 'paper' etc] in order to undermine the faithful!

and reacting accordingly
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by kaid   » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:22 pm

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isaac_newton wrote:
kaid wrote:I would imagine the testament of schuler probably cleaves pretty close to what the original inner circle had prior to merlin showing up. You don't want wind up founding a second fake religion trying to break the first fake religion. Setting up another false history does you no favors for the end game. Their goal has to be getting the full honest truth out there and this seems like a good way and opportunity to do so. Due to the verifier they had high quality copies of Schuler's voice/image.

Putting the truth that the bretheren had directly into the hands of the inquisition handed down to them by their "patron archangel" is probably one of the cleverest ways to do so. Have the people who you would normally be worried about attacking heresy being the ones promoting it basically. And a lot of people regardless of how they feel about the inquisition would have to think if these guys are accepting it then it probably has to be real.

Now you take that and have it run its course for 80 years by the time any sleeping angels wake up a large faction of the worlds population now now knows the truth.


If you try to make up some kind of mystical cover for it that just makes it more vulnerable to being cast in doubt down the line because eventually the lies would come out. Stick to the truth and you are arguing from much firmer ground.


I can see a LOT [in all countries in Safegold] of people seeing this as a diabolic intervention by Shan Wei directly in the world, emulating Langhorne's modus operandi [lights, special 'paper' etc] in order to undermine the faithful!

and reacting accordingly


That is going to be the problem regardless how it is done and yet it needs to be done. The fact they had solid voice recordings of schuler AND solid holographic apperance recording from the verifier is going to make it really hard for the inquisition to ignore though. They had recordings of schuler and langhorn. Clyntahn clearly recognized them when merlin was showing him the truth so they could look at those and the fact that he appeared in exactly the same fashion as the archangels always did right in their cathedral. Still look at the IC failures even with heavily vetted people some people just WILL NOT believe everything they had been taught was a lie. So I am pretty sure the next book kicks off the end game on safehold which is a massive holy war even worse than the last one between the truth and langhorns lie. It's going to get bloody and horrible and a war like that will push development of tech across the planet right to the line of the proscriptions before it is done which is exactly what merlin and co have to have happen if they are to succeed.
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