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**major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document...

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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:31 am

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Terranovan wrote:RFC has implicitly said that the Order of St. Kohdy was involved in this.

If this was their doing, I would find it wildly implausible that the Inner Circle doesn't know something about it. Simple courtesy would dictate a heads-up.

However, I can't yet wrap my head around how the Order and/or Inner Circle would get access to one of Zion's main churches with Federation-level technology.

Also, a claim like this would quickly lead to getting tripped up in a contradiction - with a very high cost in credibility if they get caught.

I doubt that RFC will reply to this with anything more than a grin and "Tum, te, tum, te, tum..."



Well, a tum-te-tum-te-tum plus the observation that this church is way outside Zion. In fact, it's in the Episcopate of Schueler all the way on the other side of Lake Pei --- and over 600 miles --- from the Temple.

Now, as to whether or not that's significant, I'll just --- wait. I already said tum-te-tum-te-tum, didn't I? :twisted:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by Bluesqueak   » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:34 am

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runsforcelery wrote:
Terranovan wrote:RFC has implicitly said that the Order of St. Kohdy was involved in this.

If this was their doing, I would find it wildly implausible that the Inner Circle doesn't know something about it. Simple courtesy would dictate a heads-up.

However, I can't yet wrap my head around how the Order and/or Inner Circle would get access to one of Zion's main churches with Federation-level technology.

Also, a claim like this would quickly lead to getting tripped up in a contradiction - with a very high cost in credibility if they get caught.

I doubt that RFC will reply to this with anything more than a grin and "Tum, te, tum, te, tum..."



Well, a tum-te-tum-te-tum plus the observation that this church is way outside Zion. In fact, it's in the Episcopate of Schueler all the way on the other side of Lake Pei --- and over 600 miles --- from the Temple.

Now, as to whether or not that's significant, I'll just --- wait. I already said tum-te-tum-te-tum, didn't I? :twisted:


Significant in the sense that it means the Order and the Inner Circle could use Federation level technology, or significant in the sense that it means Schueler could have planted Federation Level technology without Chihiro finding out?

It does seem slightly odd that an Archangel manages to die 600 miles outside Zion, conveniently far from the Temple sensors, when the War Against The Fallen is theoretically over - at least, no one mentioned 'fell in battle' in the Cathedral scenelet.

Oh, and who exactly was that relative/friend of the Mother Abbess who warned her that Khody was about to become persona non grata, and the archangels (or one archangel) didn't approve? Did they have the surname Wylsynn?

Shan Wei had two strings to her bow - the re-educated colonists and Nimue's PICA. Suppose Schueler had two strings to his bow - the Wylsynns and the Sisters of St Khody?

Fun times ahead. :D
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:48 am

runsforcelery
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Bluesqueak wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:

Well, a tum-te-tum-te-tum plus the observation that this church is way outside Zion. In fact, it's in the Episcopate of Schueler all the way on the other side of Lake Pei --- and over 600 miles --- from the Temple.

Now, as to whether or not that's significant, I'll just --- wait. I already said tum-te-tum-te-tum, didn't I? :twisted:


Significant in the sense that it means the Order and the Inner Circle could use Federation level technology, or significant in the sense that it means Schueler could have planted Federation Level technology without Chihiro finding out?

It does seem slightly odd that an Archangel manages to die 600 miles outside Zion, conveniently far from the Temple sensors, when the War Against The Fallen is theoretically over - at least, no one mentioned 'fell in battle' in the Cathedral scenelet.

Oh, and who exactly was that relative/friend of the Mother Abbess who warned her that Khody was about to become persona non grata, and the archangels (or one archangel) didn't approve? Did they have the surname Wylsynn?

Shan Wei had two strings to her bow - the re-educated colonists and Nimue's PICA. Suppose Schueler had two strings to his bow - the Wylsynns and the Sisters of St Khody?

Fun times ahead. :D


I think you are making assumptions. The episcopates are all named for angels, archangels, or saints, but they have nothing to do with where an individual died. The bones of the archangels are (supposedly) interred in the main cathedral of the episcopates named for them, but that doesn't say anything about where or how the archangels in question actually shuffled off the mortal coil.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:42 am

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Terranovan wrote:RFC has implicitly said that the Order of St. Kohdy was involved in this.

If this was their doing, I would find it wildly implausible that the Inner Circle doesn't know something about it. Simple courtesy would dictate a heads-up.

However, I can't yet wrap my head around how the Order and/or Inner Circle would get access to one of Zion's main churches with Federation-level technology.

Also, a claim like this would quickly lead to getting tripped up in a contradiction - with a very high cost in credibility if they get caught.

I doubt that RFC will reply to this with anything more than a grin and "Tum, te, tum, te, tum..."
runsforcelery wrote:

Well, a tum-te-tum-te-tum plus the observation that this church is way outside Zion. In fact, it's in the Episcopate of Schueler all the way on the other side of Lake Pei --- and over 600 miles --- from the Temple.

Now, as to whether or not that's significant, I'll just --- wait. I already said tum-te-tum-te-tum, didn't I? :twisted:

You just said it was significant. Now, whether that distance was significant in easing the IC's goals or hindering them is a question.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by Bluesqueak   » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:57 am

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Bluesqueak wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:


Significant in the sense that it means the Order and the Inner Circle could use Federation level technology, or significant in the sense that it means Schueler could have planted Federation Level technology without Chihiro finding out?

It does seem slightly odd that an Archangel manages to die 600 miles outside Zion, conveniently far from the Temple sensors, when the War Against The Fallen is theoretically over - at least, no one mentioned 'fell in battle' in the Cathedral scenelet.

Oh, and who exactly was that relative/friend of the Mother Abbess who warned her that Khody was about to become persona non grata, and the archangels (or one archangel) didn't approve? Did they have the surname Wylsynn?

Shan Wei had two strings to her bow - the re-educated colonists and Nimue's PICA. Suppose Schueler had two strings to his bow - the Wylsynns and the Sisters of St Khody?

Fun times ahead. :D


I think you are making assumptions. The episcopates are all named for angels, archangels, or saints, but they have nothing to do with where an individual died. The bones of the archangels are (supposedly) interred in the main cathedral of the episcopates named for them, but that doesn't say anything about where or how the archangels in question actually shuffled off the mortal coil.


True - when I checked, while you have put Schueler's death and that his body is supposed to be buried in the crypt in consecutive sentences, you haven't specifically said that he died on or near the cathedral site.

However, when I was checking that, I noticed that the young assistant Rector of the Cathedral was specifically pointed out as 'an exception to the rule' that people are currently avoiding assignments to churches dedicated to the Archangel Schueler.

And that this young Bedardist who's taken a slightly odd posting in the Cathedral where the Visitation is about to take place - is called Khody Trahskhat.

Te tum te tum tee tum? :D
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:31 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:True - when I checked, while you have put Schueler's death and that his body is supposed to be buried in the crypt in consecutive sentences, you haven't specifically said that he died on or near the cathedral site.

However, when I was checking that, I noticed that the young assistant Rector of the Cathedral was specifically pointed out as 'an exception to the rule' that people are currently avoiding assignments to churches dedicated to the Archangel Schueler.

And that this young Bedardist who's taken a slightly odd posting in the Cathedral where the Visitation is about to take place - is called Khody Trahskhat.

Te tum te tum tee tum? :D

While an interesting point, it may be a false positive.
I should know, in one of my fanfic stories, I had the main character have a paper round as a kid. Someone pointed out the the canon adult version of the character worked for a newspaper, something I'd actually missed while writing it. I'd just had him do it to get spending money...

I'm sure that even our esteemed celery chaser has had an unplanned coincidence or two creep into his stories. Of course, sometimes what may seem to be an unplanned coincidence is actually the forging of a Chekov's Gun...
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
Animal Crossing Dreams at 6E00-00F5-2891
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by DMcCunney   » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:18 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:It does seem slightly odd that an Archangel manages to die 600 miles outside Zion, conveniently far from the Temple sensors, when the War Against The Fallen is theoretically over - at least, no one mentioned 'fell in battle' in the Cathedral scenelet.
We don't actually know when and where Schueler shuffled off this mortal coil. The cathedral in the Episcopate named after him was built to house the tomb where his body was interred, but isn't necessarily the place where he expired.

I was fascinated by the existence of his tomb. We know the Angels and Archangels had the cover story of being pure spirits who were given bodies by God when they were assigned to prepare Safehold for human habitation, and they explicitly stated those bodies would wear out and that they would appear to age, though more slowly than the mortals they interacted with. I wondered precisely how their deaths would be handled. Would they die in front of the colonists, or retire elsewhere when death approached and not expire in public?

The Feast of Schueler commemorated that the day in which Schueler's soul returned to God, leaving behind the "worn out mortal body which had housed his soul for so long." That gives the impression the body was that of an old man.

We don't know how old Schueler was when he became part of the command crew for Operation Ark. We do know that preparing Safehold for the colonists to be awakened took 40 years. We don't really know how long after the colonists were awakened that the OBS attack on the Alexandria Enclave took place, followed by Kau Yung's retaliatory strike on Langhorne's HQ. We know courtesy of Kohdy's diary that the War Against the Fallen didn't break out till two years after the destruction of Langhorne's HQ, and that it lasted about 6 years. How old was Schueler when he was involved in the War Against the Fallen? How much longer did he live after that conflict was concluded? (And what all was he doing after that?)

Schueler is the first Archangel we have heard about returning to God and leaving a mortal body behind, interred in a tomb with a church raised over it to house the tomb.

I do have to wonder about the other Archangels, and precisely how their departure was handled. (I am especially curious about Chihiro.)
______
Dennis
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by bkwormlisa   » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:52 pm

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DMcCunney wrote:
Bluesqueak wrote:It does seem slightly odd that an Archangel manages to die 600 miles outside Zion, conveniently far from the Temple sensors, when the War Against The Fallen is theoretically over - at least, no one mentioned 'fell in battle' in the Cathedral scenelet.
We don't actually know when and where Schueler shuffled off this mortal coil. The cathedral in the Episcopate named after him was built to house the tomb where his body was interred, but isn't necessarily the place where he expired.

I was fascinated by the existence of his tomb. We know the Angels and Archangels had the cover story of being pure spirits who were given bodies by God when they were assigned to prepare Safehold for human habitation, and they explicitly stated those bodies would wear out and that they would appear to age, though more slowly than the mortals they interacted with. I wondered precisely how their deaths would be handled. Would they die in front of the colonists, or retire elsewhere when death approached and not expire in public?

The Feast of Schueler commemorated that the day in which Schueler's soul returned to God, leaving behind the "worn out mortal body which had housed his soul for so long." That gives the impression the body was that of an old man.

We don't know how old Schueler was when he became part of the command crew for Operation Ark. We do know that preparing Safehold for the colonists to be awakened took 40 years. We don't really know how long after the colonists were awakened that the OBS attack on the Alexandria Enclave took place, followed by Kau Yung's retaliatory strike on Langhorne's HQ. We know courtesy of Kohdy's diary that the War Against the Fallen didn't break out till two years after the destruction of Langhorne's HQ, and that it lasted about 6 years. How old was Schueler when he was involved in the War Against the Fallen? How much longer did he live after that conflict was concluded? (And what all was he doing after that?)

Schueler is the first Archangel we have heard about returning to God and leaving a mortal body behind, interred in a tomb with a church raised over it to house the tomb.

I do have to wonder about the other Archangels, and precisely how their departure was handled. (I am especially curious about Chihiro.)
______
Dennis

Me too. It's mentioned that after the war Chihiro "departed". Boy do I want to know how that was meant! The implication to me was that he supposedly left Safehold, as in departed physically, but that's just the sort of ambiguity RFC loves to torment us with.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:34 pm

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bkwormlisa wrote:
DMcCunney wrote:We don't actually know when and where Schueler shuffled off this mortal coil. The cathedral in the Episcopate named after him was built to house the tomb where his body was interred, but isn't necessarily the place where he expired.

I was fascinated by the existence of his tomb. We know the Angels and Archangels had the cover story of being pure spirits who were given bodies by God when they were assigned to prepare Safehold for human habitation, and they explicitly stated those bodies would wear out and that they would appear to age, though more slowly than the mortals they interacted with. I wondered precisely how their deaths would be handled. Would they die in front of the colonists, or retire elsewhere when death approached and not expire in public?

The Feast of Schueler commemorated that the day in which Schueler's soul returned to God, leaving behind the "worn out mortal body which had housed his soul for so long." That gives the impression the body was that of an old man. I

We don't know how old Schueler was when he became part of the command crew for Operation Ark. We do know that preparing Safehold for the colonists to be awakened took 40 years. We don't really know how long after the colonists were awakened that the OBS attack on the Alexandria Enclave took place, followed by Kau Yung's retaliatory strike on Langhorne's HQ. We know courtesy of Kohdy's diary that the War Against the Fallen didn't break out till two years after the destruction of Langhorne's HQ, and that it lasted about 6 years. How old was Schueler when he was involved in the War Against the Fallen? How much longer did he live after that conflict was concluded? (And what all was he doing after that?)

Schueler is the first Archangel we have heard about returning to God and leaving a mortal body behind, interred in a tomb with a church raised over it to house the tomb.

I do have to wonder about the other Archangels, and precisely how their departure was handled. (I am especially curious about Chihiro.)
______
Dennis

Me too. It's mentioned that after the war Chihiro "departed". Boy do I want to know how that was meant! The implication to me was that he supposedly left Safehold, as in departed physically, but that's just the sort of ambiguity RFC loves to torment us with.


What makes it even more ambiguous is the mention by SSK that the last bombardment happened after “Chihiro AND SCHUELER departed in glory with the Dawn Star
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by JollyJoker   » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:43 am

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DMcCunney wrote:We don't actually know when and where Schueler shuffled off this mortal coil. The cathedral in the Episcopate named after him was built to house the tomb where his body was interred, but isn't necessarily the place where he expired.

Do we actually know the cathedral was built after his death? That would make it unlikely he'd place a recording there.
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