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**major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document...

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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:52 pm

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Note that in regard to military threats and problems, this could mean Charis may also face helping Church "moderates" against a fanatical backlash....
The Inner Circle may want the Church dead, but they don't want the slaughter of millions of decent people.
Letting Robhair II be butchered would not be a good thing.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by dwileye13   » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:30 pm

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'Gratitude is the sign of a noble soul' is the moral of the Androcles fable.

How does that fit with the Schueler Visitation??

I do not believe the visitation was generated by any IC action but was actually a 'Delayed Presentment' by Schueler and intended to bring a real history to Safehold.
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by captinjoehenry   » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:17 pm

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dwileye13 wrote:'Gratitude is the sign of a noble soul' is the moral of the Androcles fable.

How does that fit with the Schueler Visitation??

I do not believe the visitation was generated by any IC action but was actually a 'Delayed Presentment' by Schueler and intended to bring a real history to Safehold.

That is what I hope / suspect. As the feast in 916 would be the 1,000th celebration since the the day of creation as the day of creation came after the feast in year 1 so year 2 would have been the first feast.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:36 am

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dwileye13 wrote:'Gratitude is the sign of a noble soul' is the moral of the Androcles fable.

How does that fit with the Schueler Visitation??

I do not believe the visitation was generated by any IC action but was actually a 'Delayed Presentment' by Schueler and intended to bring a real history to Safehold.



Exactly!
What it might be though....?
Maybe help South Harchong in such a way as to empower the ordinary folks and thus, make a rebellion or a resistance be it serious or just resentment against the Emperor....

Affecting Desnair somehow and making Mahris owe the Charisians, or force him to adopt Charisian work.practices would make him choke on the proverbial hairball, lol
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by kaid   » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:40 pm

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SilverbladeTE wrote:Note that in regard to military threats and problems, this could mean Charis may also face helping Church "moderates" against a fanatical backlash....
The Inner Circle may want the Church dead, but they don't want the slaughter of millions of decent people.
Letting Robhair II be butchered would not be a good thing.


They may not want it but the IC has made references a number of times about how bad they expect the real conflict when the truth is revealed will be. All they have to do is look in the histories they know that once that shoe gets dropped its going to make the last war look like a kitten fight.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by GregD   » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:41 pm

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kaid wrote:
GregD wrote:With all due respect, if, as seems to be the case, this really was a ploy by the Inner Circle, they're idiots.

They just stopped hyperventilating about worries of a Return by someone who could control the bombardment system, and so they engage in activity that could offer big enough energy readings that would trigger the Return of someone who could control the bombardment system?

WTF?


Actually it is unlikely that this display would provoke the bombardment system.


Bzzt

-100 points for not responding to what I actually said.

What part of "trigger the Return of someone who could control the bombardment system" is so hard to understand?

When the last Archangel left the building, think he might have turned on an alarm for detecting anyone else impersonating an archangel?

Heck, once you're down to the last 5 archangels, might they turn on that system, you know, the one they build during the War Against the Fallen?
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by captinjoehenry   » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:05 pm

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GregD wrote:
Bzzt

-100 points for not responding to what I actually said.

What part of "trigger the Return of someone who could control the bombardment system" is so hard to understand?

When the last Archangel left the building, think he might have turned on an alarm for detecting anyone else impersonating an archangel?

Heck, once you're down to the last 5 archangels, might they turn on that system, you know, the one they build during the War Against the Fallen?

Umm the War Against the Fallen did not seem to have any false visitations from Khodys journal. Also once that war was over they knew for sure they had dealt with all the threat so if they had such a system which seems unlikely they would have no reason to turn it on as everyone else was already dead and the few people left were on their side.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:24 pm

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kaid wrote:
They may not want it but the IC has made references a number of times about how bad they expect the real conflict when the truth is revealed will be. All they have to do is look in the histories they know that once that shoe gets dropped its going to make the last war look like a kitten fight.


Oh yeah, the potential for mayhem is going to be massive...how all it turns out due to current political climate etc and with RFC's view of how things may go in *his* story (and he may even roll some dice to add a little random chaos for all we know, and that's not insult, it's a good thing at times in a large, complex tale)
So, who knows?

"I'd recommend investing in tin food and shotguns!"
*he says like the Brain Gremlin in Gremlins 2* :mrgreen:
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by JollyJoker   » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:31 pm

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martin wrote:Worth remembering the ‘Schueler’ specifically says terrible things were done in his name, BUT not with his approval. So...
1) The gruesome parts of his book in the Writ were probably not written by him.
2) Whoever was behind the vision and the Testimony knew at least something about recent events.
My money is on the Naahman and OWL. I’d really love it to be Schueler, but I don’t think so.

I have a different perspective but think the exact same things are key here. The tension between good guy Schueler and bad guy Schueler has been there for a long time. Solution? Why not both? :twisted:

During the Jihad, it struck me how unstable a society with a reign of terror like Clyntahn's rule would be. Certainly not what Bedard would have planned for, right? But, Bedard was dead by the time the Book of Schueler was added. Did Schueler write that book to create monsters like Clyntahn and eventually make church rule impossible for the average Safeholdian to accept as God's will? Maybe he felt it was the only way he could go back to the original plan without Chihiro realizing and stopping him.

The things done in his name would then refer to use of the Punishment and generally overreach by the Inquisition that he assumed would happen within 1000 years. Telling the Wylsyns beforehand would signal to them that this appearance was genuine and not hallucination by whoever happened to be in the cathedral at the time.

I've read the arguments for and against this being Schueler himself and I'm leaning towards a recording of him. Maybe this is cheating, but I think having a known deadline for a long time and then going "Nah, nothing happened, maybe in 80 years" would be dumb. Also actions that so many feel would go against the character of the protagonists.

Given the current tech level and the problem with developing electricity, this would be a good spot for Schueler to pop up and say that part of the Proscriptions is now safe to ignore, essentially telling the IC he sabotaged the bombardment system.
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Re: **major spoilers** Speculation about a certain document
Post by Terranovan   » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:49 pm

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RFC has implicitly said that the Order of St. Kohdy was involved in this.

If this was their doing, I would find it wildly implausible that the Inner Circle doesn't know something about it. Simple courtesy would dictate a heads-up.

However, I can't yet wrap my head around how the Order and/or Inner Circle would get access to one of Zion's main churches with Federation-level technology.

Also, a claim like this would quickly lead to getting tripped up in a contradiction - with a very high cost in credibility if they get caught.

I doubt that RFC will reply to this with anything more than a grin and "Tum, te, tum, te, tum..."
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