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***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:20 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Between infodumps here and text conversation after Seijin Khody's diary was discovered, its pretty much cannon that the commodore retaliated some time after the Alexandria Strike.


Sorry, but textev indicate the opposite - that the commodore action was almost immediate after Alexandria destruction.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:30 pm

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Most importantly, the Book of Langhorne remained essentially the same, without any revisions caused by "Shan-wei fall". All those events described only in the Book of Chichiro.

If Langhorne was alive for any prolonged period after the destruction of Alexandria, it would much more "suited" for him (not Chichiro), as senior Archangel, to make the necessary changes. At the very least, he should mention the whole events in revised version of Holy Writ.

But nothing of that were ever mentioned. The Book of Langhorne remained essentially the same. Which indicates that the time between destruction of Alexandria, and commodore Pei nuclear attack was relatively short. Clearly not years.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:36 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Between infodumps here and text conversation after Seijin Khody's diary was discovered, its pretty much cannon that the commodore retaliated some time after the Alexandria Strike.
Dilandu wrote:
Sorry, but textev indicate the opposite - that the commodore action was almost immediate after Alexandria destruction.

Re-read the conversations the IC had after Merlin reads the diary of St. Khody.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:44 pm

Dilandu
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PeterZ wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Between infodumps here and text conversation after Seijin Khody's diary was discovered, its pretty much cannon that the commodore retaliated some time after the Alexandria Strike.
Dilandu wrote:
Sorry, but textev indicate the opposite - that the commodore action was almost immediate after Alexandria destruction.

Re-read the conversations the IC had after Merlin reads the diary of St. Khody.


Exactly where it was stated, that between the destruction of Alexandria and the death of Archangles was year-long span?

It was stated, that the War Against The Fallen started several years after BOTH of those events.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:27 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Between infodumps here and text conversation after Seijin Khody's diary was discovered, its pretty much cannon that the commodore retaliated some time after the Alexandria Strike.
Dilandu wrote:
Sorry, but textev indicate the opposite - that the commodore action was almost immediate after Alexandria destruction.

Re-read the conversations the IC had after Merlin reads the diary of St. Khody.
Dilandu wrote:
Exactly where it was stated, that between the destruction of Alexandria and the death of Archangles was year-long span?

It was stated, that the War Against The Fallen started several years after BOTH of those events.

Never said text stated it explicitly. I said between text and RFC's infodumps here, the timeline was longer than initially suspected.

HFQ asserts Khody had a very vague recollection of the events surounding the Alexandria strike. His understanding of the rebellion was that of a loyalist's understanding events as his side understood them. Even so, they describe time between the Alexandria strike and the War Against the Fallen. The time between the Strike and the Commodore's attack was never specified. I'll try to find the posts RFC made about that period.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:39 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
HFQ asserts Khody had a very vague recollection of the events surounding the Alexandria strike. His understanding of the rebellion was that of a loyalist's understanding events as his side understood them. Even so, they describe time between the Alexandria strike and the War Against the Fallen. The time between the Strike and the Commodore's attack was never specified. I'll try to find the posts RFC made about that period.


But he stated, that "demon" that Khody fought believe, that it was Chichiro, not Langhorne, who ordered Alexandria strike. How does it correspond with your version of events?

* If Langhorne was to blame, then why any of supposed Kau-Yung followers doubted that? Several years would be pretty long enough for Kau-Yung to establish the truth.

* If Langhorne was innocent (or at least his part in events was in doubt), then why Kau-Yung murdered him? Again, several years would be long enough to establish the truth.

No, it just didn't work.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Rogue10   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:06 pm

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Agree here that my reading of the text is also that the pocket nuke attack occurred shortly after the destruction of Alexandria. Possibly as long as months, but no way years. I can't expect that Admiral Pei expected the rebellion to occur or else he wouldn't have sidelined himself with a suicide mission at the very start (Or rather, years prior). My reading of the very beginning of OAR doesn't not indicate that years could have gone by before the Pei records the message.

I am also inclined to believe the visitation isn't the work of the inner circle. It just doesn't fit with their usual MO. The Androcles plan is supposed to be an extension of the Nahrman plan. It certainly looks like it is described in a way intended to do exactly as it has done--get us all here debating it--as it has been obviously intentionally left vague. I like another poster's idea that the Androcles plan may have actually been to get Father Paityr back to the temple and the room he described. Heh, I suppose it's possible that this visitation is an effect of the Androcles plan--what if the visitation was triggered by whatever the activation of Schuler's room in the temple does. I could see Mr. Weber failing to show us any little scene like that in this book, and saving it for a flashback in the next.

If the Inner Circle did mock this up as a hologram, I think I will be disappointed. Their moves always seem very calculated and careful, even the risky ones. The implications, good and bad, are thought out. This visitation seems like throwing a handgrenade on the table--who knows HOW things will spiral out from here?
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:09 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
HFQ asserts Khody had a very vague recollection of the events surounding the Alexandria strike. His understanding of the rebellion was that of a loyalist's understanding events as his side understood them. Even so, they describe time between the Alexandria strike and the War Against the Fallen. The time between the Strike and the Commodore's attack was never specified. I'll try to find the posts RFC made about that period.
Dilandu wrote:
But he stated, that "demon" that Khody fought believe, that it was Chichiro, not Langhorne, who ordered Alexandria strike. How does it correspond with your version of events?

* If Langhorne was to blame, then why any of supposed Kau-Yung followers doubted that? Several years would be pretty long enough for Kau-Yung to establish the truth.

* If Langhorne was innocent (or at least his part in events was in doubt), then why Kau-Yung murdered him? Again, several years would be long enough to establish the truth.

No, it just didn't work.

Langehorn did not order the strike, but had to support Chihiro's actions or broaden the rift further amongst the command crew. Had Langehorn ordered the strike, he would never have been comfortable admiting Kau-yung into his presence. Kau-yung and Shan-wei were married and separated only because of their apparent disagreement regarding deviating from the original plan for Safehold. A deviation Langehorn advocated.

Meeting with Kau-yung several years after the strike and several years after watching Kau-yung seems plausible. Had Chihiro's story to Langehorn been kept secret, Kau-yung would not have known the truth when he dtonated the nuke. Had Chihiro suspected Kau-yung of harboring a desire to decapitate the command crew, he wpould have let the Commodore do his dirty work for him. Kau-yung would have also waited to act until people were in place to ensure victory for his subordinates. A purely reflexive response would not have done that.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by isaac_newton   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:11 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Between infodumps here and text conversation after Seijin Khody's diary was discovered, its pretty much cannon that the commodore retaliated some time after the Alexandria Strike.
Dilandu wrote:
Sorry, but textev indicate the opposite - that the commodore action was almost immediate after Alexandria destruction.

Re-read the conversations the IC had after Merlin reads the diary of St. Khody.


I've very recently re-read OAR

The relevant bit I think is the Angel appearing for the second time with warning that Shan Wei HAS fallen and that
'the Angel Langhorne wrath has already been loosed with God's holy fire behind it... there is war in Safehold. My children and until it is re'

BOOOOM

as I read it this says the sat system has only just been unleashed at Armageddon Reef and that the pocket nuke is a rapid counter strike.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:16 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Between infodumps here and text conversation after Seijin Khody's diary was discovered, its pretty much cannon that the commodore retaliated some time after the Alexandria Strike.
Dilandu wrote:
Sorry, but textev indicate the opposite - that the commodore action was almost immediate after Alexandria destruction.
PeterZ wrote:Re-read the conversations the IC had after Merlin reads the diary of St. Khody.
isaac_newton wrote:
I've very recently re-read OAR

The relevant bit I think is the Angel appearing for the second time with warning that Shan Wei HAS fallen and that
'the Angel Langhorne wrath has already been loosed with God's holy fire behind it... there is war in Safehold. My children and until it is re


BOOOOM

as I read it this says the sat system has only just been unleashed at Armageddon Reef and that the pocket nuke is a rapid counter strike.

More reasons to re-read! Joy! :lol:
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