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***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:12 pm

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PeterZ wrote:The latter scenario is very interesting. Let's assume Schueler was the other person who knew about Nimue and was scheduled to attend that meeting. If he wasn't there but did know that in the meeting Langhorne persuaded Pei that he didn't order the KEW strike, that puts him in an interesting moral predicament. I can see Schueler being responsible for something central to the question of who ordered the strike being commed in to the discussion. Given the Inquisition's role in the CoGA, Schueler might have been the Command Staff head of communications. That morphs easily into intel once hostilities break out. So, Schueler didn't know who did it, but was convinced Langhorne didn't.

So if Schueler really did know about Nimue and Langhorne didn't order the strike, he could have the motive to initiate a millennia long plan to reveal the Truth. The biggest question with this scenario is why Schueler was so staunchly against the "demons". I suspect that he was a firm believer in maintaining chain of command until he could prove who ordered the strike. Khody's discovery pretty much confirms Chihiro's guilt. Then Schueler begins his long term plans with Nimue in mind.
Bluesqueak wrote:
I think the explanation of why Schueler was so staunchly against 'demons' may be that he 'turned' when Khody was murdered. Possibly, until then, he'd bought the 'Pei Kau-Yung Did It' explanation, but found out that Khody had been killed before being able to tell him something - and realised both sets of deaths were just too convenient for Chihiro.

Remember, the Order of St Jerneau didn't find out about Nimue directly. The secret leaked; Jerry Knowles overheard or found out something he shouldn't. So Schueler doesn't have to have been Person No. 2. He could have found out (if he did) from Person No. 2. He might not know about Nimue - just that there's a PICA hidden away.

Couple of things that occur to me. One - when Nynian is explaining to Merlin how she spotted him, she tells him that the original Abbess knew both Chihiro and Schueler. Then she changes it to 'spoke to'. As if she realised the Abbess didn't really know one of them at all ... or as if she realised she'd just given a bit too much away about just how well the Abbess knew Schueler and Chihiro.

Then when she tells Merlin how she realised he was a seijin, she says
One of you who could change not just his outward appearance but who he actually was as easily as a mask lizard changes color in a flowerbed ... and that, my friend, was the final truth you truly were a seijin.


But Khody couldn't do that. It needs a PICA to be able to change appearance like a mask. There's no hint in what we're told of the diaries that Khody ever changed appearance.

Looking at that section, it's like Nynian had been given a verbal description of a PICA, one suitable for someone who doesn't understand tech. And given the way the Order of St Khody promptly swing behind the Seijins, it's definitely as if they've been primed to support the Seijin (description passed on by word of mouth) when they reappear. Whatever side they're on...

Which supports the idea that someone who knows PICAs informed Nynian what they are capable of. My supposition that Schueler was the one that knew about Nimue is supported if Schueler was also the one that supported the SSK and informed Nynian.

If Schueler was told by Pei Kau-yung about Nimue, he could have used that to drive the creation of the SSK and the Wylsyns. If Kau-yung didn't nuke Langhorne but Chihiro did and Schueler eventually found out, that is more than enough motive to create whatever plan is necessary to stifle Chihiro's desires.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Bahzellstudent   » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:02 pm

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we just need the next book!
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by isaac_newton   » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:11 pm

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Bahzellstudent wrote:we just need the next book!



yes please!! :lol:
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Joat42   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:40 am

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Bluesqueak wrote:Couple of things that occur to me. One - when Nynian is explaining to Merlin how she spotted him, she tells him that the original Abbess knew both Chihiro and Schueler. Then she changes it to 'spoke to'. As if she realised the Abbess didn't really know one of them at all ... or as if she realised she'd just given a bit too much away about just how well the Abbess knew Schueler and Chihiro.

Then when she tells Merlin how she realised he was a seijin, she says
One of you who could change not just his outward appearance but who he actually was as easily as a mask lizard changes color in a flowerbed ... and that, my friend, was the final truth you truly were a seijin.
But Khody couldn't do that. It needs a PICA to be able to change appearance like a mask. There's no hint in what we're told of the diaries that Khody ever changed appearance.

Looking at that section, it's like Nynian had been given a verbal description of a PICA, one suitable for someone who doesn't understand tech. And given the way the Order of St Khody promptly swing behind the Seijins, it's definitely as if they've been primed to support the Seijin (description passed on by word of mouth) when they reappear. Whatever side they're on...

You know that RFC himself have said that (so far) there are no other PICA's involved in the story than those Merlin and Nimue is running around with.

And, please explain why Nynian hasn't told Merlin all of this yet?

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Louis R   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:56 pm

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The proposition isn't that there is, or was, another PICA running around, but that the SSK were given a list of capabilities that only a PICA can demonstrate, and told that 'these are the signs of a true Seijin'. A list that has descended to Nynian more or less complete even if not really understood.

And she _did_ tell Merlin - that's the whole point of the passage quoted below.

Now, I'm not arguing that the notion is correct, interesting as it is. The suggestion rests on several unproven assumptions and a possibly-incomplete understanding of the evolution of legend and myth.

Joat42 wrote:You know that RFC himself have said that (so far) there are no other PICA's involved in the story than those Merlin and Nimue is running around with.

And, please explain why Nynian hasn't told Merlin all of this yet?


Bluesqueak wrote:Couple of things that occur to me. One - when Nynian is explaining to Merlin how she spotted him, she tells him that the original Abbess knew both Chihiro and Schueler. Then she changes it to 'spoke to'. As if she realised the Abbess didn't really know one of them at all ... or as if she realised she'd just given a bit too much away about just how well the Abbess knew Schueler and Chihiro.

Then when she tells Merlin how she realised he was a seijin, she says
One of you who could change not just his outward appearance but who he actually was as easily as a mask lizard changes color in a flowerbed ... and that, my friend, was the final truth you truly were a seijin.
But Khody couldn't do that. It needs a PICA to be able to change appearance like a mask. There's no hint in what we're told of the diaries that Khody ever changed appearance.

Looking at that section, it's like Nynian had been given a verbal description of a PICA, one suitable for someone who doesn't understand tech. And given the way the Order of St Khody promptly swing behind the Seijins, it's definitely as if they've been primed to support the Seijin (description passed on by word of mouth) when they reappear. Whatever side they're on...
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Joat42   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:32 pm

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Louis R wrote:The proposition isn't that there is, or was, another PICA running around, but that the SSK were given a list of capabilities that only a PICA can demonstrate, and told that 'these are the signs of a true Seijin'. A list that has descended to Nynian more or less complete even if not really understood.

And she _did_ tell Merlin - that's the whole point of the passage quoted below.

Now, I'm not arguing that the notion is correct, interesting as it is. The suggestion rests on several unproven assumptions and a possibly-incomplete understanding of the evolution of legend and myth.

All the things Aivah iterated through how she knew Merlin was a real Seijin has very little to do with PICA's IMHO. All the things she listed can be accomplished by a flesh and blood person who has access to fed-tech.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Louis R   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:01 pm

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That it can't is one of the assumptions I was referring to.

Joat42 wrote:
Louis R wrote:The proposition isn't that there is, or was, another PICA running around, but that the SSK were given a list of capabilities that only a PICA can demonstrate, and told that 'these are the signs of a true Seijin'. A list that has descended to Nynian more or less complete even if not really understood.

And she _did_ tell Merlin - that's the whole point of the passage quoted below.

Now, I'm not arguing that the notion is correct, interesting as it is. The suggestion rests on several unproven assumptions and a possibly-incomplete understanding of the evolution of legend and myth.

All the things Aivah iterated through how she knew Merlin was a real Seijin has very little to do with PICA's IMHO. All the things she listed can be accomplished by a flesh and blood person who has access to fed-tech.
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