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***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by BeFree   » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:25 pm

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Well 28 Pages and I don't think I've seen the theory I found while wandering around left field posted.

The Testimonies of Schueler are real.

Perhaps the IC found the temple and the testimonies were set to reveal at some point in the future, or somehow along with the Key. They then determined they could kick off this revelation of the testimonies and crafted the hologram to present it, and that was what they were discussing with all members. Not faking it, but finding the truth and choosing to reveal it on their timetable rather than Schueler's giving them enough time to start tearing down the Writ and creating the tech base that only a psychopathic returning Archangel would want to go against even the revised Ark plan by having to kill all humans by that point.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:18 pm

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BeFree wrote:Well 28 Pages and I don't think I've seen the theory I found while wandering around left field posted.

The Testimonies of Schueler are real.

Perhaps the IC found the temple and the testimonies were set to reveal at some point in the future, or somehow along with the Key. They then determined they could kick off this revelation of the testimonies and crafted the hologram to present it, and that was what they were discussing with all members. Not faking it, but finding the truth and choosing to reveal it on their timetable rather than Schueler's giving them enough time to start tearing down the Writ and creating the tech base that only a psychopathic returning Archangel would want to go against even the revised Ark plan by having to kill all humans by that point.



Welcome to the Forum BeFree - the first Virtual Old Tilman's on us - then you need to find your own supply. (I'm running low, if you find a local supplier, clue me in...)

Introductions out of the way, your proposal is as good as any - unfortunately there is no indication that our friends found anything of the sort - other than the "barely on camera" project Androcules (Sic) plotting by our virtual protagonists - which this being David's writing could mean nothing... or everything.

Even more unfortunately, Chiriro (Sic), or whoever wrote the replaced writ, seems to be totally unhinged, so if he is returning, we'll get to meet one of Hitler and Stalin's close pen pals. And stuff like this won't put him in a joking mood...

All prognostications aside, The next book better start with a through discussion of the reappearance of Schueler - or at least a good view of one of our heros saying "What the He!!" when he hears of it.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by SCC   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:45 am

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Two MAJOR reason why I feel this can't be the work of the IC that I don't think have been brought up yet:

1. It's perfect for an off-by-one error. See the thing is calendar's never have a year 0 in them, which causes most people to make all sorts of error's, point in fact the new millennium celebrations where all a year early, they should have occurred December 31st, 2000, not December 31st, 1999.

2. Narrative, and this is one we really should have seen coming. Basically everyone who's part of the cast now will have to be DEAD by the time YoG 1000 rolls around.

More reasons:

3. Low witness population. For something like this going down you want THOUSANDS of witnesses so that people can't just write it off, but only like 60 people saw this. Yes there's physical evidence, but that's not likely to be enough.

4. It used high tech in a very flashy and noticeable way. I shouldn't need to explain why this is a bad idea for the IC.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by BeFree   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:12 am

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People in the story without nanites at living to 80 plus years, and the youngsters are getting nanites early enough to get some form of regeneration, so surely that generation will be around at year 1000. The issue will be how to explain this rebirth of Adams and Eves who are still in their prime after 100 years. If during the 80 year gap (if that is what happens) the book of Schueler actually explains what the real reason for Safehold was, the avoidance of technology long enough to escape the notice of the Gbaba, and then the re-acquisition of it so the remaining humans could leave Safehold and bring the fight back to the Gbaba. Then the IC can, if people eventually accept this, start rolling out nanites to everyone and then the long lives of the IC won't be as problematic.

This is the reason they can never lie, they can never fabricate something like the Testimonies of Schueler. But they can release what truth they found, and if the video never spoke a lie, then the use of his image might be enough to cause him to spin in the grave if the IC did create that to bring the Testimonies into the open.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by SCC   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:26 pm

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BeFree wrote:People in the story without nanites at living to 80 plus years, and the youngsters are getting nanites early enough to get some form of regeneration, so surely that generation will be around at year 1000. The issue will be how to explain this rebirth of Adams and Eves who are still in their prime after 100 years. If during the 80 year gap (if that is what happens) the book of Schueler actually explains what the real reason for Safehold was, the avoidance of technology long enough to escape the notice of the Gbaba, and then the re-acquisition of it so the remaining humans could leave Safehold and bring the fight back to the Gbaba. Then the IC can, if people eventually accept this, start rolling out nanites to everyone and then the long lives of the IC won't be as problematic.

This is the reason they can never lie, they can never fabricate something like the Testimonies of Schueler. But they can release what truth they found, and if the video never spoke a lie, then the use of his image might be enough to cause him to spin in the grave if the IC did create that to bring the Testimonies into the open.

Multiple problems with this:
1. No evidence of this regeneration you speak off, and even if it didn't that wouldn't extend lifespans.

2. Merlin has explicitly ruled out using life extension technology, and for very good reason.

3. Everyone in the current cast of characters will be OVER 100 by the time YoG 1000 rolls around, and most of them even older, Cayleb and Sharleyan will be over 130, and those are the sorts of ages that will get people suggesting demonic intervention.

4. The IC has no truths to break about the Archangels, their even MORE unsure about the chronology of events after the destruction/creation of Armageddon Reef then everyone else on the planet.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by BeFree   » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:30 am

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So if we look at the arc of the story, Caleb comes in at book one and is still around in book 10, but we spend less time with him in book 10 and a bit more developing characters who are to come. As for longevity, the nanites remove disease from the table, which is a huge game changer.

Here on our planet an infection after surgery might take you down (a friend has spent a couple of months trying to recover from a post surgery infection and will be on antibiotics for the next 5 months. That's not an issue with nanites either. I have another friend whose 99 year old mother is about to turn 100 and is still going strong.

But if they're still looking spry at 100 on Safehold and in that time the lie of the church hasn't been exposed and the true purpose of Safehold not accepted by the people of the planet, they'll not be on tract to take on the Archangels at year 1000.

We've got potentially 80 years of story to tell about how the Testimonies of Schueler change the face of Safehold, and look at how long it took our planet to go from Kitty Hawk to landing people on the moon. And we didn't have a crib sheet of how to build that spaceship.

So how many more books is RFC going to put out in this story? I was introduced to Brandon Sanderson when he was brought in to finish the Wheel of Time series. A series I had abandoned before that because I read what seemed like 1000 pages with the plot not moving anywhere. I eventually finished it (AFTER he had written all the books), but it didn't seem as satisfying as if the plot had been moving along.

The plot in Safehold has been moving along well.

With book 10, every few chapters the steam engines improved, but most of that was "off camera" Setting up Siddermark and Harchong for future conflict, but the battle scenes showed that's really not a fair fight.

So Time was the biggest enemy in book 10, and More Time is still an enemy in book 11 and potentially beyond. People resist change, people hate to give up power. So perhaps book 11 focuses on how people resist change and try to hold on to power.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:28 pm

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Louis R wrote:Have you ever seen a high-speed photo sequence of splashing? That vertical column is the last part to form, as the result of the returning water colliding. The free droplets separating from the top are evidence of a shock forming and running up the column.

The _initial_ ejecta created by the impact itself are thrown out in a cone with an opening angle that depends on the impact velocity and surface properties - and I freely admit that I don't know what that will be. [for giant impacts, it's typically 45-60 degrees above horizontal]. For one thing, as Dilandu points out, any reasonable OBS impactor will be coming in at a multiple of the speed of sound in water, and that matters, although it isn't likely to be enough that the surface can be treated as solid.


Loren Pechtel wrote:
If you try to drill water like that the later-arriving rods (rocks have to be too big to get through the atmosphere) the later-arriving rods will smack into water thrown up by earlier impacts. An awful lot of energy will be expended blowing up splash. Spread them apart far enough they don't hit splash and they hit reformed water.

The only way you could hope to drill water is if you could fire a whole bunch on the same bearing like a train--but no orbital facility could do that.


If you could keep firing on the same bearing I agree with your assessment. However, it's in orbit--moving several km/sec. The next projectile will come down at a different angle.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Galactic Sapper   » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:38 pm

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Late to the party, as usual.

One major unchecked assumption the Inner Circle made: that the archangel's return would be visible.

Nimue, when she awoke, spent months in her cave while she sent out SNARCs and studied the situation she faced on Safehold. Why doesn't anyone assume an awakened archangel would do the same, especially if he awoke via a timer rather than being triggered by the Key or the OBS or whatever? He'd need time to assess exactly what had happened over the last 900+ years and what he would need to do to return Safehold back to its intended path. If, that is, he intended to do so (depends on which archangel awakens) and if it seems possible to do (which the Nahrmahn Plan was intended to take off the table).

We have to assume the tech base available to the Temple and any awakened archangel is at least as advanced and undetectable as the one the IC has. It's entirely possible there's a whole second network of SNARCs keeping tabs on the IC without their knowledge, the same way they spy on everyone else! If so, whoever or whatever is in charge of that notional network would know who is in the IC, what their plans entail, and almost certainly knows the location of the cave. Best hope they're friendly, because the IC is not used to operating on the wrong end of such a handicap.

Given what we actually know, it's at least as likely that the visitation was by Schuler himself (in PICA form, no doubt) than it was the IC. Time will tell.

On an unrelated note, I'd like to commend RFC for not naming any of the alternate personalities of Merlin or Nimue with any variation of "Chu" and sparing us any Pokemon-related puns.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:29 am

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Regarding an underwater base.

The greatest consequence of an OBS strike, would be the resulting mega-tsunami. Simple large earthquakes have caused significant waves to cross the pacific and do significant damage on the other side.

The lateral forces resulting from such a bombardment as is being proposed coupled with smaller oceans on Safehold, would be like multiple Yucatán-level meteor impacts. Anything within miles of the surrounding coast.... ALL of the coast.... would be washed off the map! Add in the cubic kilometers of vaporized sea water in the atmosphere screwing up the climate patterns and you are looking potentially at an extinction event that likely would include humanity as well as much of the flora and fauna on the planet.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by WeberFan   » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:41 pm

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After reading and contemplating all the posts in this thread, I offer up the following TEXTEV - which I personally consider pretty definitive...

(Emphasis mine)

August Year of God 915.II. Imperial Palace, City of Cherayth, Kingdom of Chisholm, Empire of Charis.

"You're right," Nahrmahn agreed. "And, speaking of archangels that haven't turned up yet, Owl and I would like to show you what we've been working on with Paityr and Nynian to kick off the final phase of the 'Nahrmahn Plan.'" His avatar's smile was remarkably broad ... and evil. "Somehow, I think the real Schueler's going to be spinning in his grave."
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