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Howard railroad(spoilers)

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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by JBNL1972   » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:36 pm

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PeterZ wrote: The Inner Circle has to be considering ways to spread industrialization to as many places as possible to reduce the possibility of widespread rakurai attacks after the Awakening.


Wait, what did you pick up on that I apparently missed ?
What's this Awakening ?
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:47 pm

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JBNL1972 wrote:
PeterZ wrote: The Inner Circle has to be considering ways to spread industrialization to as many places as possible to reduce the possibility of widespread rakurai attacks after the Awakening.


Wait, what did you pick up on that I apparently missed ?
What's this Awakening ?

That is the return of the archangels Paityr Wylsyn's family believes will happen in about 20 years. It is assumed this means an awakening of whatever is under the Temple. I certainly believe that. However, it might also refer to something else. Regardless, there is something under the temple and it may activate at some time.

The fear of the Inner circle is that whatever awakens/returns to take control of the OBS can destroy EVERYTHING exposed to technology beyond their Proscription threshold. One argument for addressing this is to spread technology so far that no entity charged with ensuring the survival of humanity would destroy humanity. So, if technology was spread too far, no amount of the use of rakurai would not destroy that knowledge. Only madness would find the use of rakurai in that circumstance a viable option. Spreading technology as widely as possible then would be an effective counter measure under most scenarios.
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by cnrd22   » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:55 pm

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JBNL1972 wrote:
PeterZ wrote: The Inner Circle has to be considering ways to spread industrialization to as many places as possible to reduce the possibility of widespread rakurai attacks after the Awakening.


Wait, what did you pick up on that I apparently missed ?
What's this Awakening ?


See snippet 1:

"And had he meant the return of whoever or whatever was coming back would occur a thousand years after the Day of Creation when the first Adams and Eves had awakened here on Safehold? Or had he meant from the time he left the Key, at the end of the War Against the Fallen? Mother Church had begun counting years from her victory in the against the Fallen, but the war hadn't ended until seventy-plus Safeholdian years after the Day of Creation. So, if Schueler had meant a thousand years after Creation, he'd been talking about sometime around the middle of July of 915. If he'd meant a thousand years from the time he left the Key with the Wylsynns'distant ancestor, he'd been talking about the year 996 or so. Or he could simply have been talking about the year 1000, a thousand years after the start of the Church's post-Jihad calendar.

So we have fifteen years . . . or ninety-six . . . or a hundred and ten, Merlin thought now. Nothing like a little ambiguity to liven up the day."



Since this novel ends in March 916, it will obviously pass 915 and I strongly expect that no Archangels will show up in 915 as Charis, Merlin etc are not yet ready for them, so the story would end there...
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by AClone   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:23 pm

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I have to admit, I always appreciate when someone puts a (spoilers) warning in the thread title. Y'know, right after the spoiler that is the thread title. :cry:

Howard is getting railroads, huh? :(
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:57 pm

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AClone wrote:Howard is getting railroads, huh? :(


EVERYBODY is getting railroads. :roll: The "Spoiler" is who is building them and how.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:00 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
AClone wrote:Howard is getting railroads, huh? :(


EVERYBODY is getting railroads. :roll: The "Spoiler" is who is building them and how.

Ayup. Continue reading at your peril!
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by lyonheart   » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:38 am

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Hi PeterZ,

18th century Terran wooden wagon roads show the way, and Delthak had wooden dragon roads before they were replaced with iron etc, a progression that was so obvious there was no need for any hints from Merlin.

The textev stated that South Harchong produced nearly all of the empire's increased weapons production, because most of the steel open hearth's etc were in the south.

This suggests coal, iron ore, and the other critical materials were quite plentiful internally, so SH isn't economically or industrially dependent on anyone else, including NH, so what Desnair can offer besides gold?

Just when SH becomes independent will be interesting, if the emperor ticks off enough southerners soon enough, it might surprise us.

Interesting times indeed.

L


PeterZ wrote:
Julia Minor wrote:quote="phillies"
I would suggest starting with teak ties and softer wooden wheels, dragon drawn, with brakemen as needed. It's way lower tech, but it can be done entirely with local resources and builds you up for the next step. Iron straps on the rails are likely to be a PITA in many ways. Perhaps spying out open hearth steelmaking would work./quote

The CoGA got their hands on plans for Charis' steelworks when the Sword Rakurai set off that riot in Siddar City. Whether Desnair accepted a copy is more than I can say, but South Harchong should have them because CoGA took over their steel and weapon production.

I wonder where South Harchong gets their iron ore and coal? Heck, where do they get most of their raw materials? The flow of raw materials to those manufactories will be central to the politics of Howard. I do mean all raw materials; from lumber and agricultural products like steel thistle to all varieties of ores.

Rereading AtSoT suggests that Boiseau and the areas west of the Chiang-wu range is where the majority of the North Harchong forges are. That assumption is supported by the river network flowing from the mountain ranges in Omar and Thomas. There are also rivers flowing down from the Desolation Mountains into Cheshire. It was inferred that Boisseau relied on coastal shipping to export their production. The existing river network will also suggest that Boisseau relies on coastal shipping to get the ore into their foundries.

That suggests to me that the railroads connecting the cities of Boisseau, Cheshire and Chiang-wu to the river and canal networks of central Harchong will improve productivity immensely. It will turn the largely agrarian North Harchong into an industrial powerhouse. They have access to ALL the raw materials needed for an industrial economy. They have access to a larger population than just about any other nation. Desnair is bassackward and Siddermark is a mess. South Harchong isn't as populated.

Connecting the nations of South Howard together by railroad to the southern slope of the Crescent Mountains has the potential of doing the same thing to those nations. The raw material potential of those mountains may well be attractive enough to justify investment. The Inner Circle has to be considering ways to spread industrialization to as many places as possible to reduce the possibility of widespread rakurai attacks after the Awakening.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:30 pm

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Actually, they are limited in their population and that places a firm upper bound on SH's political power. If they can't reconcile with either of the Northern polities, their lack of population means they will either be a massive producer of industrial output OR a military force. They simply cannot do both well enough any time soon. To do both they need to ally with someone....cough....Desnair. I suppose they could ally with Delfehrahk and Sodar, but those polities have to actually expand their military quite a bit for that to make sense.
lyonheart wrote:Hi PeterZ,
18th century Terran wooden wagon roads show the way, and Delthak had wooden dragon roads before they were replaced with iron etc, a progression that was so obvious there was no need for any hints from Merlin.

The textev stated that South Harchong produced nearly all of the empire's increased weapons production, because most of the steel open hearth's etc were in the south.

This suggests coal, iron ore, and the other critical materials were quite plentiful internally, so SH isn't economically or industrially dependent on anyone else, including NH, so what Desnair can offer besides gold?

Just when SH becomes independent will be interesting, if the emperor ticks off enough southerners soon enough, it might surprise us.

Interesting times indeed.

L
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by Randomiser   » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:25 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Actually, they are limited in their population and that places a firm upper bound on SH's political power. If they can't reconcile with either of the Northern polities, their lack of population means they will either be a massive producer of industrial output OR a military force. They simply cannot do both well enough any time soon. To do both they need to ally with someone....cough....Desnair. I suppose they could ally with Delfehrahk and Sodar, but those polities have to actually expand their military quite a bit for that to make sense.


Not quite so confident of that Desnair pop 148M; Delferahk 89M; Sodar 31M; Harchong 194M, split not specified; Imperial Charis 82M. (see 'Grab Bag 2 of Questions' in the forum FAQs) Probably not accounting for War casualties.

Yes Desnair 'had' a large army, a totally useless one, many of the experienced officers and troops of which are no longer with us. Not really sure the officer class have learned not to despise infantry and to stop yearning to lead gallant cavalry charges, however. It depends how much of Harchong's population is now in the South, but it's not clear Desnair is a worthwhile ally because of the cultural baggage they carry. Also Delferahk is bigger than Imperial Charis, numbers wise, and with Sodar is 80% the size of Desnair with less attitude.
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Re: Howard railroad(spoilers)
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:31 pm

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Randomiser wrote:...It depends how much of Harchong's population is now in the South, but it's not clear Desnair is a worthwhile ally because of the cultural baggage they carry. ...


I should think Desnair's "cultural baggage" is precisely what would make them ideal allies in the SH Emperor's view. The decision is NOT going to be made after rational, dispassionate consideration of all the pros and cons, it is going to be driven by the SH Emperor's prejudices and biases matching up with the Emperor of Desnair's prejudices and biases.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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