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TFT Snippet #10

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by GregD   » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:28 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:And to be honest, that’s mostly because we lost Archbishop Zhasyn. If anybody had the moral authority to sit on those idiots, it was him. But he just . . . used himself up during the Jihad. He and Archbishop Arthyn got the reconciliation courts set up, but we needed more time and we didn’t get it.”

Stohnar nodded heavily. Arthyn Zagyrsk, the Archbishop of Tarikah, and Zhasyn Cahnyr, the Archbishop of Glacierheart, had indeed created the reconciliation courts that both Stohnar and Rhobair II had signed off upon. That provided at least a legal framework for the return of some of the millions of Siddarmarkian Temple Loyalists who’d fled to the Temple Lands during and after the Jihad. The courts had offered a means to adjudicate legal claims and property ownership as an essential part of rebuilding a stable society. What they hadn’t provided was a moral framework, a basis for genuine reconciliation between one-time neighbors who hated one another with a bitter, burning passion because of the atrocities and bloodshed which had turned the Republic’s western provinces into a corpse-littered wasteland dotted with the mass graves of the Inquisition’s death camps.


Yeah, no

If I were a Siddarmarker in those provinces, I'd cheerfully kill any Temple Loyalist who tried to come back.

There is no reconciliation possible for the atrocities of the "Sword of Schueler". Let them stay in the Temple Lands, with the Harchongian soldiers.

There are choices that don't get to be undone. Being with the Inquisition when they slaughtered your neighbors is one of them. And, yes, maybe you were totally repulsed by what your follow "Temple Loyalists" were doing, but didn't want to get slaughtered trying to stop them.

Many of your neighbors didn't get to make that choice.

Now you don't get to make the choice to go back.
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by cnrd22   » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:55 pm

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GregD wrote:Yeah, no

If I were a Siddarmarker in those provinces, I'd cheerfully kill any Temple Loyalist who tried to come back.

There is no reconciliation possible for the atrocities of the "Sword of Schueler". Let them stay in the Temple Lands, with the Harchongian soldiers.

There are choices that don't get to be undone. Being with the Inquisition when they slaughtered your neighbors is one of them. And, yes, maybe you were totally repulsed by what your follow "Temple Loyalists" were doing, but didn't want to get slaughtered trying to stop them.

Many of your neighbors didn't get to make that choice.

Now you don't get to make the choice to go back.


The problem with this is that choosing vengeance leads only to poverty and more vengeance. Maybe millions of Siddamarkians were cowards and left rather than face occupation and the fury of the Inquisition, but whom do you prefer - them and their children (who are blameless after all) or the quick mark speculators who make their money and leave?

But I see why the author will go with the vengeance theme in this situation (while he went with peace and reconciliation in Emerald and Corisande) as he needs a real foe for Charis for the new series and only Siddamark really fits the bill once there is no other "alignment" running the show secretly dropped on us from nowhere - and while I thought we would see such, the snippets so far and the reviews of the book available online indicate I was wrong.

And then how does Siddamark transforms from an ally to an enemy - well we see the beginnings right here...
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by GregD   » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:10 am

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cnrd22 wrote:The problem with this is that choosing vengeance leads only to poverty and more vengeance. Maybe millions of Siddamarkians were cowards and left rather than face occupation and the fury of the Inquisition, but whom do you prefer - them and their children (who are blameless after all) or the quick mark speculators who make their money and leave?


Disagree.

If it leads to poverty among those who fled, I couldn't care less.

But for those who are still there, and may have started working the land, etc.

It's not poverty for them to not have to put up with any Temple Loyalists coming back.

In fact, not having to worry about your neighbors burning your house, your fields, or otherwise murdering you in the night, THAT is a good economic boost right there.

Their children can stay with their parents. Somewhere else.
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:05 pm

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cnrd22 wrote:The problem with this is that choosing vengeance leads only to poverty and more vengeance. Maybe millions of Siddamarkians were cowards and left rather than face occupation and the fury of the Inquisition, but whom do you prefer - them and their children (who are blameless after all) or the quick mark speculators who make their money and leave?

GregD wrote:Disagree.

If it leads to poverty among those who fled, I couldn't care less.

But for those who are still there, and may have started working the land, etc.

It's not poverty for them to not have to put up with any Temple Loyalists coming back.

In fact, not having to worry about your neighbors burning your house, your fields, or otherwise murdering you in the night, THAT is a good economic boost right there.

Their children can stay with their parents. Somewhere else.

The problem is not so much withthe TL people who were relocated by the AOG as it retreated (usually involuntarily), but the ithe Reformists who refugeed out to avoid being killed or tortured by the SoS. And most of the speculators driving the problems in Western Siddermark weren't anywhere around during the Sos - most of them were in the capital or elsewhere in east Siddermark - why should they have any greater standing than the Reorminsts who left to avoid being killed.
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by GregD   » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:20 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:The problem is not so much withthe TL people who were relocated by the AOG as it retreated (usually involuntarily), but the ithe Reformists who refugeed out to avoid being killed or tortured by the SoS. And most of the speculators driving the problems in Western Siddermark weren't anywhere around during the Sos - most of them were in the capital or elsewhere in east Siddermark - why should they have any greater standing than the Reorminsts who left to avoid being killed.


I'm failing to see the problem.

Reformists who refugeed out get to come back, and re-take their land
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by Julia Minor   » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:56 pm

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GregD wrote:
I'm failing to see the problem.

Reformists who refugeed out get to come back, and re-take their land


And what happens when a Temple Loyalist family claims they were really Reformist and forced off their lands for their beliefs? A hard-core TL probably wouldn't lie like that, but someone theologically middle-of-the-road, who was loyal to the Temple out of habit instead of committed belief?

Or, on the flip side, what happens when someone who stayed put in Siddarmark starts yelling about that refugee family really being TL murderers? I'd be surprised if Glacierheart was the only province where the feud was a way of life. Even without that, a speculator who bought a really nice farm may not want to return it to the original owner.
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by GregD   » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:51 pm

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Julia Minor wrote:
GregD wrote:
I'm failing to see the problem.

Reformists who refugeed out get to come back, and re-take their land


And what happens when a Temple Loyalist family claims they were really Reformist and forced off their lands for their beliefs? A hard-core TL probably wouldn't lie like that, but someone theologically middle-of-the-road, who was loyal to the Temple out of habit instead of committed belief?

Or, on the flip side, what happens when someone who stayed put in Siddarmark starts yelling about that refugee family really being TL murderers? I'd be surprised if Glacierheart was the only province where the feud was a way of life. Even without that, a speculator who bought a really nice farm may not want to return it to the original owner.


Reformist refugees went one way, TL ones went a different way. If you travelled with the Inquisition, you don't get to come back.

I would guess that speculators who try to ace people out of their property tend to die mysteriously, from ong range shots
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:37 pm

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I think GregD has more than a few points. The easiest thing to do is to treat all refugees who fled west as treasonous. The big problem I see is the nature of Siddermark's Republic and how they managed to be peacefully expansionist. The answer, I believe is their steadfast belief in the rule of law. That means if the Siddermark government does not defend the legal rights of landowners who happen to be Temple Loyalist, they admit they may not acknowledge the legal rights of any other citizen should circumstances demand expedience.

If Temple Loyalists can be proven to have committed treason, fine. However, that requires due process. If they withhold due process in such a systemic way as to deny property rights for any citizen who refugeed west, they will pretty much have let the Republic die. I can see the Lord Protector expending whatever resources he has to avoid lose his nation's soul like that.
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Re: TFT Snippet #10
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:05 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:I would guess, since we know that PICA's were mainly created as medical support, that gender dysphoria was one of the things they were created to treat. Certainly that would explain why a medical support device has the ability to switch physical sex at will.


Just because they were created for medical use doesn't mean things like the gender-switching might not have been added later when recreational uses emerged. I suspect a lot of people would like to truly know what it's like to be the other gender.
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