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TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)

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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by Randomiser   » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:08 am

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AClone wrote:It's kinda interesting the way that most of you seem to be ignoring the simple fact of the influence that Merlin's main squeeze has to have in Siddarmark.


Point. but Mrs Athrawes is only one (foreign) investor, who doesn't even live in Siddarmark any more - not unless Merlin Has retired, at least (and that ain't gonna happen). Besides she may well have moved the order's money where it will get a better return, (Charis) whatever she has done with her own.
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:17 pm

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Randomiser wrote:
AClone wrote:It's kinda interesting the way that most of you seem to be ignoring the simple fact of the influence that Merlin's main squeeze has to have in Siddarmark.


Point. but Mrs Athrawes is only one (foreign) investor, who doesn't even live in Siddarmark any more - not unless Merlin Has retired, at least (and that ain't gonna happen). Besides she may well have moved the order's money where it will get a better return, (Charis) whatever she has done with her own.

She is more productive having her subordinates controlling convents and abbeys incorporating modern techniques wherever they may be. Heck, they should start using those techniques in producing goods and services to the locals. When they get competition, offer technical support and private equity investments funded by the Church....er CoGA that is.
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by Direwolf18   » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:05 pm

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I was actually thinking about that. First I am assuming Stohnar is dead and that Daryus Parkair did not win the election, even if he wanted to. I just CAN NOT possibly see the relationship souring with either of those two in charge.

As for suspected anti-Charisan sentiment (only explanation I could see for restricting Charisan investment) Maybe some Siddimarkians start to suspect or blame at least, Nynian and her alliance with the Sejiin network for the sword in the first place. The fact that she was clearly preparing for it, and the Charisians responded so quickly, well maybe they had a hand in creating the situation to get the Siddimarkians to do the dying for them instead. I mean clearly she was keyed into this AMAZING network of spies that saw everything everywhere, except the sword. It is commented on that even Stohnar was clearly miffed how good Charis's spies are. Seems exactly the sorta thing a buncha money grubbing capitalists would do to the good hardworking Sidimarkians. I could see this as a prime thing that a Leveler would do or say to win an election.
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by isaac_newton   » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:33 am

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Direwolf18 wrote:I was actually thinking about that. First I am assuming Stohnar is dead and that Daryus Parkair did not win the election, even if he wanted to. I just CAN NOT possibly see the relationship souring with either of those two in charge.

As for suspected anti-Charisan sentiment (only explanation I could see for restricting Charisan investment) Maybe some Siddimarkians start to suspect or blame at least, Nynian and her alliance with the Sejiin network for the sword in the first place. The fact that she was clearly preparing for it, and the Charisians responded so quickly, well maybe they had a hand in creating the situation to get the Siddimarkians to do the dying for them instead. I mean clearly she was keyed into this AMAZING network of spies that saw everything everywhere, except the sword. It is commented on that even Stohnar was clearly miffed how good Charis's spies are. Seems exactly the sorta thing a buncha money grubbing capitalists would do to the good hardworking Sidimarkians. I could see this as a prime thing that a Leveler would do or say to win an election.



IIRC the Siddermark elections were not for the entire adult population - the electorate was of the more 'substantial' families... so prob not v likely that Levelers would have much chance.
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by cnrd22   » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:48 am

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My take on Siddamark is that Charis needs a credible opponent for the second round - I really do not think we'll have Charis against the Temple round 2 and for a while I thought there will be another secret group with knowledge of everything but with their own goals as the main antagonist, but I see no evidence in the snippets for that and similarly I strongly believe the Archangels return is a red herring at least in the immediate future because that would change things too dramatically, so by elimination I believe the author will engineer a reverse of alliances (not unlike what happened after WW2 after all), with Dohlar in and Siddamark out - this obviously won't happen overnight and will take great economic upheaval and at the least the death of Stohnar but the book covers some 15-16 years from the latest info so there is time.

Also Thirsk's family has been mentioned too many times in the books so it's likely it will play an important role and there are lots of kids there for any number of dynastic alliances with Charis as the kids will be growing - something that can and probably would be used by Siddamark enemies of Charis to show Charisian perfidy in betraying their war allies and siding with their enemies etc
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by Direwolf18   » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:07 pm

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isaac_newton wrote:

IIRC the Siddermark elections were not for the entire adult population - the electorate was of the more 'substantial' families... so prob not v likely that Levelers would have much chance.



That is exactly what I think happen. If you look at modern socialist movements in the west, they tend to be led from the outset by the very rich, aka the champagne socialists. I don't want to step to far into modern politics in this thread but there are several politicians in our modern era I could see EASILY doing this sort of thing. Not so much because they hate Charis, although I do believe it was stated a majority of the original electorate went over to mother church, but because they love power and will go through any motion, bleat any platitude to get it.
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by ywing14   » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:15 pm

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cnrd22 wrote:My take on Siddamark is that Charis needs a credible opponent for the second round - I really do not think we'll have Charis against the Temple round 2 and for a while I thought there will be another secret group with knowledge of everything but with their own goals as the main antagonist, but I see no evidence in the snippets for that and similarly I strongly believe the Archangels return is a red herring at least in the immediate future because that would change things too dramatically, so by elimination I believe the author will engineer a reverse of alliances (not unlike what happened after WW2 after all), with Dohlar in and Siddamark out - this obviously won't happen overnight and will take great economic upheaval and at the least the death of Stohnar but the book covers some 15-16 years from the latest info so there is time.

Also Thirsk's family has been mentioned too many times in the books so it's likely it will play an important role and there are lots of kids there for any number of dynastic alliances with Charis as the kids will be growing - something that can and probably would be used by Siddamark enemies of Charis to show Charisian perfidy in betraying their war allies and siding with their enemies etc


I'll be interested to see if his family returns to him or they stay elsewhere. It would probably still be safer for them if everyone thought they were dead.
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by Louis R   » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:34 am

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IIRC, a couple of his granddaughters were hanging around the Imperial nursery the night before Jhaspahr met his timely end.

ywing14 wrote:
cnrd22 wrote:My take on Siddamark is that Charis needs a credible opponent for the second round - I really do not think we'll have Charis against the Temple round 2 and for a while I thought there will be another secret group with knowledge of everything but with their own goals as the main antagonist, but I see no evidence in the snippets for that and similarly I strongly believe the Archangels return is a red herring at least in the immediate future because that would change things too dramatically, so by elimination I believe the author will engineer a reverse of alliances (not unlike what happened after WW2 after all), with Dohlar in and Siddamark out - this obviously won't happen overnight and will take great economic upheaval and at the least the death of Stohnar but the book covers some 15-16 years from the latest info so there is time.

Also Thirsk's family has been mentioned too many times in the books so it's likely it will play an important role and there are lots of kids there for any number of dynastic alliances with Charis as the kids will be growing - something that can and probably would be used by Siddamark enemies of Charis to show Charisian perfidy in betraying their war allies and siding with their enemies etc


I'll be interested to see if his family returns to him or they stay elsewhere. It would probably still be safer for them if everyone thought they were dead.
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Re: ATST Snippet #9
Post by Vinea   » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:42 am

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Dilandu wrote:
“We do what Charisians do best, Your Majesty.” She gave him a quirky smile. “We invest. We take those islands of stability and expand them into islands of prosperity.”


Was tried in post-war China, then in Vietnam, partially in South Korea (in 1960s the average life level in "communists hell" on the North was significantly higher than in "free paradise" of South)... the results are pretty trivial. Funds are stolen, misused, mismanaged by corrupt & incompetent local powermongers. Eventually the "investor" is forced to took direct control over "islands of prosperity" (before they became actually worse than "not so prosperous" parts), after which "investor" turned into "invader" in the eyes of locals. After this, the best plan is usually to pull out as fast as its possible.

Anyway, thanks for a new snippet!


I only swing by once in a blue moon for snippets but I'll point out (if it hasn't already been) that Taiwan and South Korea were two of the four Asian Tigers. The other two also being islands of prosperity: Hong Kong and Singapore.

And that Taiwan and South Korea were/are Kleptocracies didn't stop that from happening. Neither believe that the US are "invaders"...just sometimes annoying and only moderately dependable allies. We also never directly took control over these two countries.

South Vietnam likely would have been a 5th Asian tiger had it survived. We had a moral duty to try to keep it afloat do so under the "if you break it you bought it" code but elected not to after we pulled out.

So, thus far, from a historical perspective, the strategy is sound. The real question is whether Taiwan will have a soft landing or not but kicking that can down the road has worked for the last 50 years....and hopefully for a few decades more...
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Re: TFT Snippet #9 (fixed to satisfy smart alecs)
Post by Vinea   » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:03 am

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runsforcelery wrote:“If we’re talking about military aid,” Kynt Clareyk, Baron Green Valley and Duke Serabor, replied, “I’ll have to give it some serious thought before I could give you any sort of definitive answer. But I can already tell you there’s no way we have sufficient military capability to intervene on any broad scale in Harchong. That kind of rolling disaster sucks up manpower like a sponge, and we’re still building down from Jihad levels.”


Isn't there a whole bunch of North Harchongans soldiers with a desire to go home? One way to convince the serfs that the island of stability is in their interest and there is a power to keep the local nobles honest is an army of serfs, armed, equipped and paid by Charis/Church/both to make sure it's that way?

I guess the question is how trustworthy they are and if they'd keep the stability or revolt and destroy it. Given they've been exiled that might make them more loyal to their Might Host officers and the Church.
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