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TFT Snippet #7

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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:00 pm

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Julia Minor wrote:I'm a bit surprised that Rhobair didn't suggest calling on the Siddarmarkians to help with the humanitarian effort.

Maybe "surprised" is the wrong word -- after all, if Charis isn't called in, Merlin has no excuse to get involved. But we know from the last novel that there's a lot of Siddarmarkians who fall halfway between the Church of the Temple and the Church of Charis. Siddarmark has the same "street cred" of having been attacked by the Temple, is closer to Harchong geographically, and unless I hideously misread things may be closer to the Temple theologically.

OTOH, I'm now suspecting that Charis being called in to help is part of what gives Merlin a chance to check out the Temple in that out-of-order snippet.

I would think that Siddermark hasn't yet fully recovered from their ordeal. That suggests they are not as well equipped to send the resources to aid Harchong. Also, how would they send the aid? They would have to rely on the canals and that would displace other mainland cargo. Charis would use their own shipping and would not displace any mainland canal cargos.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:10 pm

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Julia Minor wrote:I'm a bit surprised that Rhobair didn't suggest calling on the Siddarmarkians to help with the humanitarian effort.

Maybe "surprised" is the wrong word -- after all, if Charis isn't called in, Merlin has no excuse to get involved. But we know from the last novel that there's a lot of Siddarmarkians who fall halfway between the Church of the Temple and the Church of Charis. Siddarmark has the same "street cred" of having been attacked by the Temple, is closer to Harchong geographically, and unless I hideously misread things may be closer to the Temple theologically.

OTOH, I'm now suspecting that Charis being called in to help is part of what gives Merlin a chance to check out the Temple in that out-of-order snippet.


There are a bunch of reasons not to get Siddarmark involved. Including the fact that Siddarmark's western provinces are ---

Oops. I meant Tum-Te-Tum-Te-Tum.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by Isilith   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:19 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Well, I got the impression that Out Islanders were similar ethnically to Malay and other Southeast Asian peoples. I suspect that they are physically more similar to the Harchongese than most mainlanders. I always considered Charisian sailors are the inheritors to the Buginese sailors of the South Sunda Sea. The intrepid inhabitants of South Sulawesi and as Thomas Forrest wrote in A Voyage from Calcutta to the Mergui Archipelago (1792), S.78 ff., “The Buggesses in general are a high-spirited people; they will not bear ill usage... They deserve the character given of Malays in general, by Monsieur Poivre, in his Travels of a Philosopher, 'fond of adventures, emigration, and capable of undertaking the most dangerous enterprizes'.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugis


Really? I never got that at all. I always equated Charis to a type of England, not GB, but England. It fits culturally and beyond a little more racial blending, fits in with descriptions.

I saw:

Charis as England
Corisande as being very like Charis/England
Chisholm as Scotland/Ireland
Siddarmark as liken to the Germanic states, just united.
Temple lands as a Slavic blending
Border states as a combo of Siddarmark/Temple Lands
Harchong as Asian
Southern Harchong as a North American blend with more Asian influence/blending.
Sodar/Delf/other places didn't give enough information to even guess
Dohlar as a Netherlands/Belgium
Silkiah as a Spanish Netherlands type
Desnair as a Spanish/French hybrid

But with all nations having more of a racial blend than on Earth. So the differences were driven a lot more societal, rather than racial/ethnic. At least to start, on Safehold.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:17 pm

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Isilith wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Well, I got the impression that Out Islanders were similar ethnically to Malay and other Southeast Asian peoples. I suspect that they are physically more similar to the Harchongese than most mainlanders. I always considered Charisian sailors are the inheritors to the Buginese sailors of the South Sunda Sea. The intrepid inhabitants of South Sulawesi and as Thomas Forrest wrote in A Voyage from Calcutta to the Mergui Archipelago (1792), S.78 ff., “The Buggesses in general are a high-spirited people; they will not bear ill usage... They deserve the character given of Malays in general, by Monsieur Poivre, in his Travels of a Philosopher, 'fond of adventures, emigration, and capable of undertaking the most dangerous enterprizes'.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugis


Really? I never got that at all. I always equated Charis to a type of England, not GB, but England. It fits culturally and beyond a little more racial blending, fits in with descriptions.

I saw:

Charis as England
Corisande as being very like Charis/England
Chisholm as Scotland/Ireland
Siddarmark as liken to the Germanic states, just united.
Temple lands as a Slavic blending
Border states as a combo of Siddarmark/Temple Lands
Harchong as Asian
Southern Harchong as a North American blend with more Asian influence/blending.
Sodar/Delf/other places didn't give enough information to even guess
Dohlar as a Netherlands/Belgium
Silkiah as a Spanish Netherlands type
Desnair as a Spanish/French hybrid

But with all nations having more of a racial blend than on Earth. So the differences were driven a lot more societal, rather than racial/ethnic. At least to start, on Safehold.

As national analogues, yours is as good as any. Enthnicly not so much. I recall Out Islanders as having a more pronounced epicanthic fold and being shorter than mainlanders. At 6'0" Cayleb is very tall and Merlin is a giant. Further recall that Islanders have dark hair and darker skin. Sharley is described as having skin the color of aged ivory without her being constantly in the sun. All of that suggests a swarthyness deeper than most Europeans.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by Bluesqueak   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:40 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
Isilith wrote:
Really? I never got that at all. I always equated Charis to a type of England, not GB, but England. It fits culturally and beyond a little more racial blending, fits in with descriptions.

I saw:

Charis as England
Corisande as being very like Charis/England
Chisholm as Scotland/Ireland
Siddarmark as liken to the Germanic states, just united.
Temple lands as a Slavic blending
Border states as a combo of Siddarmark/Temple Lands
Harchong as Asian
Southern Harchong as a North American blend with more Asian influence/blending.
Sodar/Delf/other places didn't give enough information to even guess
Dohlar as a Netherlands/Belgium
Silkiah as a Spanish Netherlands type
Desnair as a Spanish/French hybrid

But with all nations having more of a racial blend than on Earth. So the differences were driven a lot more societal, rather than racial/ethnic. At least to start, on Safehold.

As national analogues, yours is as good as any. Enthnicly not so much. I recall Out Islanders as having a more pronounced epicanthic fold and being shorter than mainlanders. At 6'0" Cayleb is very tall and Merlin is a giant. Further recall that Islanders have dark hair and darker skin. Sharley is described as having skin the color of aged ivory without her being constantly in the sun. All of that suggests a swarthyness deeper than most Europeans.


I got the impression that Charis was 'Caribbean' - very mixed racially, warm climate, and with the economic and political system based on the English one. Chisholm has a very 'Lowland Scot' cultural vibe, with Ravensland as the Highlanders.

Siddarmark is the U.S. 'Emerald' is a pun on Ireland's nickname, and Dohlar/Desnair as Portugal/Spain. Though I'm not sure which is which; 'Dohlar' suggests Spain, but Desnair's dependence on its gold sounds more Spanish.

The Temple lands strike me as a vastly oversized Vatican State - only one real 'industry', which is religion. Harchong is obviously China, and South Harchong is Hong Kong/Singapore/Taiwan.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by blackjack217   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:45 pm

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I could see Dolhar grabbing a province if things go to hell in a handbasket. They do border parts of North Harchong and have always been portrayed as very competent. They also have the ability to wreck the Harchongese Navy.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:05 pm

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Isilith wrote:Sending the CoC into Harchong will open up things for Merlin to have active, or should I say OPEN, operations there. Maybe Merlin goes and rescues a member of Rainbow Waters family?

I can also see a few ( be they overly brutal serfs or aristocrats ) visits being paid by Mab as well.


Merlin doesn't need to become involved in North Harchong, Nor does "Mab" or any of his -- or Nimue's -- established Aliases. ANY of the previously known Seijin would be seen as Charisian imperialism or some-such.

Merlin and/or Nimue can just as easily establish Harchongese Seijin identities and coordinate between the various rebel factions without involving any Seijin from the First War or giving the appearance of Charisian involvement.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:06 pm

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blackjack217 wrote:I could see Dolhar grabbing a province if things go to hell in a handbasket. They do border parts of North Harchong and have always been portrayed as very competent. They also have the ability to wreck the Harchongese Navy.


They actually don't. They Border the Border Kingdoms. The closest they come is to be accross the Gulf of Transhar from the Princedom of Transhar.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by Isilith   » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:38 pm

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PeterZ wrote:As national analogues, yours is as good as any. Enthnicly not so much. I recall Out Islanders as having a more pronounced epicanthic fold and being shorter than mainlanders. At 6'0" Cayleb is very tall and Merlin is a giant. Further recall that Islanders have dark hair and darker skin. Sharley is described as having skin the color of aged ivory without her being constantly in the sun. All of that suggests a swarthyness deeper than most Europeans.



I think you are recalling incorrectly. RFC has stated that all safeholdians have a slightly more pronounced epicanthic fold. But the only nationality that I recall himself stating had even more of an epicanthic fold, were the Harchongians.

The Charisians were only more pronounced compared to "most of us", as in NA/EU types.
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Re: TFT Snippet #7
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:35 am

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Isilith wrote:
PeterZ wrote:As national analogues, yours is as good as any. Enthnicly not so much. I recall Out Islanders as having a more pronounced epicanthic fold and being shorter than mainlanders. At 6'0" Cayleb is very tall and Merlin is a giant. Further recall that Islanders have dark hair and darker skin. Sharley is described as having skin the color of aged ivory without her being constantly in the sun. All of that suggests a swarthyness deeper than most Europeans.



I think you are recalling incorrectly. RFC has stated that all safeholdians have a slightly more pronounced epicanthic fold. But the only nationality that I recall himself stating had even more of an epicanthic fold, were the Harchongians.

The Charisians were only more pronounced compared to "most of us", as in NA/EU types.

I'll grant you the epicanthic folds. That leaves the other features. The Out Islanders are swarthier than mainlanders. In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter much. I just found the analogy between the Bugis and the CoGA's sailing boogie men Charisians represented an enjoyable one. After all, one tradition has the term "boogie men" derived from those intrepid Bugis.
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