Really??????

Where to start, I’m currently reading and almost finished with Hell’s Foundations Quiver. I can’t say I’m going to buy At the Sign of Triumph. My issue with this series is the complete lack of common-sense and the blatant formula fiction its turning into.

Let’s start with lack of common-sense. The whole series seems to be based of the situation Churchill faced with Coventry. Churchill had to choose to either sacrifice lives or show his hand. While I admit that in any conflict that choice will always come up, there is another hard choice. There is the choice of the needs of the many out way the few. That is the choice Truman had to make to end WW2. Truman had to choose between approximately 1.7- 4 million deaths, a lot of those civilians, in operation Downfall. Or drop the bombs killing a few hundred thousand and try to end the war. Before everyone jumps on the Zinn bandwagon I recommend reading Tsuyoshi Hasegawa views on the subject.

The point to all of this is yes, hurl a rock at Zion, the story of fighting the church loyalist can still go on. Also, in the capture of Dreadnought why didn’t a snark destroy it. They can apparently do everything except light a match. I completely understand the need to introduce technology, but that fuse is already burning. Giving the enemy equal of close to equal tech goes back to killing millions for no reason. But this all brings up the formula fiction this is turning into.

I hate formula fiction, its cheap and lazy. This is turning into another Honorverse. I latterly was able to skip chapters in a row and still easily follow the story. I’m surprised that I haven’t come across a chapter where it isn’t just describing The Grand Inquisitor using the head. I’m only down to skipping pages. This is what it’s like reading:

“Exercise caution when applying a twisting force of not too
great of torque, as to not cause something of an unwanted
nature to occur, but sufficient enough to cause motion in
a counter-clockwise fashion, to enable access to contents
of receptacle.“

In other words “open the jar carefully”

The point to all of this is yes, hurl a rock at Zion, the story of fighting the church loyalist can still go on.

1. Just how do you propose they to do that? Merlin can't exactly operate in the open here.

2. The Temple is, in effect, a planetary defense bunker. You can't "throw a rock at it" without killing all of Zion at the very least. The Inner Circle wants to win. They don't want to win by being genocidal maniacs like Clyntahn.

Also, in the capture of Dreadnought why didn’t a snark destroy it. They can apparently do everything except light a match. I completely understand the need to introduce technology, but that fuse is already burning. Giving the enemy equal of close to equal tech goes back to killing millions for no reason. But this all brings up the formula fiction this is turning into.

David's response last time it came up.

Needaname wrote: The point to all of this is yes, hurl a rock at Zion, the story of fighting the church loyalist can still go on. Also, in the capture of Dreadnought why didn’t a snark destroy it. They can apparently do everything except light a match. I completely understand the need to introduce technology, but that fuse is already burning.

They didn't destroy her because:

* She did not presented much threat by herself (Charis already have more capable units)

* She serves as a perfect example for Dohlar that they should boost their tech development to compete with Charis.

* (RFC admitted that building sail-powered ironclads was senseless idea )

The point to all of this is yes, hurl a rock at Zion

I really doubt that Merlin have such abilities to do any real damage to the Temple without warning all sensor systems around (Rakurai array including). The Temple itself is rather inpenetrable fortress, and Merlin have very little clues about "how deep are the underground bunker complex below the Temple". Short of gigaton-scale nukes (which would probably inflict tremendous damage to the planet ecology, at least in short therms) hardly anything would work against such target in one strike. And if Merlin could not do it in one strike, then there is no reason to do it at all - because any waiting systems would be triggered immediately.

Giving the enemy equal of close to equal tech goes back to killing millions for no reason.

Problem is, that for Merlin it isn't enough that "good guys win". His mission is to establish the innovative mindset, persuade the planetary population that they have no other way other then start to investigate the world around them and think how its working.

Yes, Merlin tries to help "the good guys" win. But it's not his main mission. And while I'm absolutely sure that RFC would never do such plot twist (here, I agree about plot formulas ), but potentially Merlin COULD destroy Charis - and WOULD do it, if this helped his main mission. Which actually gave the whole series... quite interesting subtext.

P.S. Agree about the Honorverse, thought. Frankly, I long ago decided to consider all books after "At All Costs" as in-universe historical fiction, written long after Honor's era.

Its either in Midst Toil and Tribulation or Like a Mighty Army
Mirlin mentions (soliloquy) that he can either detonate himself or drop a rock. The dilemma he has is the innocent people in Zion. I'm think it was Midst Toil and Tribulation.

The series is defiantly heading in the direction of "I need to fill pages". David Weber needs to work on his word slashing. I have to battle with myself with every page. I want to breakout a pencil and start cutting down the descriptions.

I personally kinda like all those descriptions and details. Especially of those minor characters I know are most probably about to die couple of paragraphs later. gives so much more depth to the world.

I recommend borrowing At Sign of Triumph from the library if you don't want to pay for it then.

Duckk wrote:2. The Temple is, in effect, a planetary defense bunker. You can't "throw a rock at it" without killing all of Zion at the very least. The Inner Circle wants to win. They don't want to win by being genocidal maniacs like Clyntahn.

And for all Merlin knows, the OBS could be programmed with a Cold War mentality and retaliate if the Temple is destroyed. Retaliate against who? Given the OBS isn't intelligent in itself, EVERYONE.

Obviously, no one thinks this is likely. But no one knows how exactly the OBS is programmed or what its programmers were thinking. That means they can only guess at what might cause it to fire.