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TFT snippet #3

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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by ksandgren   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:08 pm

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Thank you for the snippet. We miss you rfc.
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by NervousEnergy   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:46 pm

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bigrunt wrote:Thank you very much RFC. While I like the fact that Baen allows us to buy advanced reader copies I can wait for January.

Unfortunately Safehold is published by Tor, and their corporate masters still for some misguided reason reject the rich bounty of selling a book twice for top dollar. January is the fate of all of us.

Unless you're willing to haunt eBay for a physical ARC.

I had a feeling he was going to be the primary character that wouldn't take the truth well.
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:24 pm

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A rather nasty idea; what if they made a virtual copy of Eastshare's personality, and test-run a stimulation of persuasion several millions time (re-loading from stored each time, of course)? :twisted: So basically they would work out the strategy that have a best chances to work on original Eastshare? ;)
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by evilauthor   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:50 pm

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Dilandu wrote:A rather nasty idea; what if they made a virtual copy of Eastshare's personality, and test-run a stimulation of persuasion several millions time (re-loading from stored each time, of course)? :twisted: So basically they would work out the strategy that have a best chances to work on original Eastshare? ;)


That's tantamount to killing Eastshare millions of times. An electronic copy of a person is still a person.
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:27 pm

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evilauthor wrote:That's tantamount to killing Eastshare millions of times. An electronic copy of a person is still a person.


Considering that Federation basically done it with PICA's personalities on usual basis, erasing them after time limit... Seems not a big moral problem. Oh well, we could store the "difference" of each test, and after the perfect strategy would be established, could add it all to original virtual copy. It may suffer a bit of multiple personality disorder, but it's the price.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by elaineofshalott   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:33 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
evilauthor wrote:That's tantamount to killing Eastshare millions of times. An electronic copy of a person is still a person.


Considering that Federation basically done it with PICA's personalities on usual basis, erasing them after time limit... Seems not a big moral problem. Oh well, we could store the "difference" of each test, and after the perfect strategy would be established, could add it all to original virtual copy. It may suffer a bit of multiple personality disorder, but it's the price.


The Federation may have never resolved their debate about the rights of those personalities, but the inner circle seems to have moved firmly towards each of them being individuals. But it is a moot point. They can't record the personalities of any of the Safehold born characters without killing the original.
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by Isilith   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:23 pm

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elaineofshalott wrote:
Dilandu wrote:
Considering that Federation basically done it with PICA's personalities on usual basis, erasing them after time limit... Seems not a big moral problem. Oh well, we could store the "difference" of each test, and after the perfect strategy would be established, could add it all to original virtual copy. It may suffer a bit of multiple personality disorder, but it's the price.


The Federation may have never resolved their debate about the rights of those personalities, but the inner circle seems to have moved firmly towards each of them being individuals. But it is a moot point. They can't record the personalities of any of the Safehold born characters without killing the original.


Umm, pretty sure that they can. They just can't do it QUICKLY, like with our little rotund prince of Emerald, without committing lethal levels of neuro damage.
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by elaineofshalott   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:51 pm

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Isilith wrote:
elaineofshalott wrote:
The Federation may have never resolved their debate about the rights of those personalities, but the inner circle seems to have moved firmly towards each of them being individuals. But it is a moot point. They can't record the personalities of any of the Safehold born characters without killing the original.


Umm, pretty sure that they can. They just can't do it QUICKLY, like with our little rotund prince of Emerald, without committing lethal levels of neuro damage.


No Merlin can't record his quickly.
“Because I overlooked the minor fact that it was designed to interact with either an organic human’s implants … or a PICA’s high-speed data port,” Merlin sighed. “At the moment, I don’t have either. And neither do any of the rest of you.” He shrugged. “It could still do the job in my case, but Nahrmahn’s right about how long it would take. I haven’t been able to find a big enough uninterrupted chunk of time to record myself, and we don’t have the time for me to go on sabbatical and take care of it now, either.

Weber, David. Like a Mighty Army (Safehold) (p. 441). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.


The rest can only be recorded the way Nahrmahn was. Partially and fatally.
However, the chance that I— or any of the rest of you who wanted to volunteer for the job— would be able to sustain a functioning personality in a PICA’s ‘brain’ is vanishingly small. In fact, Owl puts it at less than one half of one percent.”

Weber, David. Like a Mighty Army (Safehold) (p. 442). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.


ETA:
The description of what was involved in recording the personality of a Safehold born human. After discussing that it can't be done normally without the receptors that Federation born humans had:
“The nannies built the receptors we needed,” Nimue said in a flat tone. “And they found the material to build them by scavenging other parts of your brain. They had to do that anyway for me to block the pain, since you didn’t have the receptors someone on Old Terra would’ve had, but it wasn’t easy and they couldn’t do it without inflicting a lot of additional damage. If by some miracle you hadn’t died after all, Nahrmahn, you’d’ve been a complete paralytic afterwards. That’s why I’d never have used it, despite the horrible pain I knew you were in, if there’d been the least chance of your surviving your wounds. But there wasn’t, and I didn’t want to lose you, and that meant Owl and I had to push the nannies even further, because we needed to reach more than just your brain’s pain centers. What we did certainly would’ve killed you in the end, whatever else happened, and, frankly, I didn’t think we’d be able to do it, anyway. Not really—not in the time we had left, and not with how badly the nannies had already burned themselves out keeping you alive until I got there.”

Weber, David. Midst Toil and Tribulation (safehold Book 6) (pp. 252-253). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.


Of course Nimue can be recorded quickly because she has a functioning High Speed Data Port.
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by Bluesqueak   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:46 pm

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Thanks for the snippet, RFC.

Hmmm... who I'm thinking of now is Sandaria Ghatfryd. Because if she had decided that Merlin, OWL and Narhman were really demons who'd fooled Nynian, Cayleb, Sharleyan's er al, she had an awful lot of experience in hiding what she's truly thinking while working for Helm Cleaver and the Sisterhood. Not to mention lots of experience in working on a very long term plan.

So her conversion to the truth could be fake - and she does rather drop out of sight in At The Sign of Triumph. And she would be in a superb position to ask the Inner Circle to wake Eastshare up, because she's the only one of them with experience of having not believed Merlin straight away.

If she could figure out a way to help Eastshare escape, even if it was ten or twenty years down the line, that would restart the religious war. A Chisholmian noble and famous Charisian General, claiming the Church of Charis is the product of demonic influence, who was captured by the demons, and hasn't aged in twenty years? He'd be the poster boy for the new Holy War.

Might not be Sandaria, but I suspect Eastshare isn't going to stay in his cryogenic capsule.
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Re: TFT snippet #3
Post by Joat42   » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:11 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
evilauthor wrote:That's tantamount to killing Eastshare millions of times. An electronic copy of a person is still a person.


Considering that Federation basically done it with PICA's personalities on usual basis, erasing them after time limit... Seems not a big moral problem. Oh well, we could store the "difference" of each test, and after the perfect strategy would be established, could add it all to original virtual copy. It may suffer a bit of multiple personality disorder, but it's the price.

Not really, the memories from the PICA are re-integrated using NEAT after shutdown. Otherwise it would be kind of stupid to use a PICA to do extreme sports and not remember it...

---
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