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What exactly Grimaldi did?

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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:25 pm

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It is also possible that she did nothing evil.

IE The evil that she is said to have done was made up by the winners.

Dilandu wrote:Something interesting that I noticed in ASOT:

How did they do it? his brain demanded of itself. How could they do it?

He never doubted that it had to have been the false seijins—no, the demons who pretended to be seijins!—but how?

There’s nothing like this in the records—not in The Testimonies, not in the Book of Chihiro, and not in the Inquisition’s secret files. Nothing! Never. Not at Shan-wei’s hands or during the War Against the Fallen. Not even Grimaldi accomplished anything like this after his fall!


So... what exactly Grimaldi done to be awarded with such special mention? Notice that she is mentioned AFTER the Shan-Wei and War Against the Fallen both, which suggest that her actions were particularly "notorious". And according to the Wiki,

According to scripture, Grimaldi sided with Shan-wei when she rebelled against the Archangel Langhorne, and Grimaldi's twisted version of the healing teachings of the Archangel Truscott became the cause of pestilence.


Considering that "something that even Grimaldi could not accomplish" was the sudden death of everyone inside St. Thyrmyn’s, I could not help but wonder: what exactly Grimaldi tried to accomplish? Considering that she is associated with pestilence, it was probably something nasty and biological. Some kind of biological warfare - but against whom? Maybe some mad attempt to kill the majority of colonists with bioweapon released, so the majority of the command crew would be forced to stuck with Shan-Wei original plan simply because they would be the last human beings alive, and without advanced tech they would not be able to maintain the existence of human race?

Interesting, huh?
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:55 pm

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DrakBibliophile wrote:It is also possible that she did nothing evil.

IE The evil that she is said to have done was made up by the winners.


Hardly, considering that for some reason she and exactly she was given such "special" position in Inquisition special archives. And this data was clearly NOT for common knowledge. So there were no reason to mark her specifically exactly for propaganda value.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by Isilith   » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:26 pm

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Dilandu wrote:Please. We didn't even know was Grimaldi associated with Shan-Wei at all. More likely not



Umm, what? We know that Grimaldi was considered a fallen angel, we also know he was listed as the angel of pestilence. This after some of the fallen "arch-angels" that followed Shan-Wei were not only named, but listed with their sphere of influence, so to speak.

All of that makes it a pretty iron clad surety that Grimaldi was one of the members of Shan-Wei's inner circle and a "fallen angel".
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:26 am

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Isilith wrote:
Dilandu wrote:Please. We didn't even know was Grimaldi associated with Shan-Wei at all. More likely not



Umm, what? We know that Grimaldi was considered a fallen angel, we also know he was listed as the angel of pestilence. This after some of the fallen "arch-angels" that followed Shan-Wei were not only named, but listed with their sphere of influence, so to speak.

All of that makes it a pretty iron clad surety that Grimaldi was one of the members of Shan-Wei's inner circle and a "fallen angel".


Actually, we don't even know if Grimaldi ever existed. Only some of Alexandria Enclave staff were named in _Off Armageddon Reef_. Remember all the sins that the Book of Chihiro attributes to Shan-Wei were actually committed by Langhorne and company.
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:23 am

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Isilith wrote:Umm, what? We know that Grimaldi was considered a fallen angel, we also know he was listed as the angel of pestilence. This after some of the fallen "arch-angels" that followed Shan-Wei were not only named, but listed with their sphere of influence, so to speak.

All of that makes it a pretty iron clad surety that Grimaldi was one of the members of Shan-Wei's inner circle and a "fallen angel".


No. Only a minor fraction of "fallen" was actually associated with Shain-Wei, and most of them were killed in Alexandria strike. The majority of "fallen" that fought in the War Against the Fallen weren't part of Shain-Wei cadres; in fact, they seems to be Langhorne's loyalists, who fought against Chichiro and Shueller.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by n7axw   » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:28 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
Isilith wrote:Umm, what? We know that Grimaldi was considered a fallen angel, we also know he was listed as the angel of pestilence. This after some of the fallen "arch-angels" that followed Shan-Wei were not only named, but listed with their sphere of influence, so to speak.

All of that makes it a pretty iron clad surety that Grimaldi was one of the members of Shan-Wei's inner circle and a "fallen angel".


No. Only a minor fraction of "fallen" was actually associated with Shain-Wei, and most of them were killed in Alexandria strike. The majority of "fallen" that fought in the War Against the Fallen weren't part of Shain-Wei cadres; in fact, they seems to be Langhorne's loyalists, who fought against Chichiro and Shueller.


Not Langhorne's loyalists, but the planetary police who had been under the jurisdiction and were loyal to Pei Kauyung. That much, IIRC, was revealed in the analysis of Seijin Khody's journal by Nahrman and Owl.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:47 pm

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n7axw wrote:
Not Langhorne's loyalists, but the planetary police who had been under the jurisdiction and were loyal to Pei Kauyung. That much, IIRC, was revealed in the analysis of Seijin Khody's journal by Nahrman and Owl.

Don

-


Seijin Khody's journal also mentioned, that they believed that it was Chichiro, who ordered Alexandria strike, and suspected that the Chichiro wanted to took Langhorne's place in Safehold theological model. So, considering that the majority of them were loyal to old command crew, they could be considered Langhorne's loyalists.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by n7axw   » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:49 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
n7axw wrote:
Not Langhorne's loyalists, but the planetary police who had been under the jurisdiction and were loyal to Pei Kauyung. That much, IIRC, was revealed in the analysis of Seijin Khody's journal by Nahrman and Owl.

Don

-


Seijin Khody's journal also mentioned, that they believed that it was Chichiro, who ordered Alexandria strike, and suspected that the Chichiro wanted to took Langhorne's place in Safehold theological model. So, considering that the majority of them were loyal to old command crew, they could be considered Langhorne's loyalists.


Not quite. The "demon" who defeated Khody believed that and presented Khody with reasons why that may have been true. From the context, it sounds like one of many theories out there. In that situation believing that theory doesn't really make anyone a Langhorne loyalist. The only thing really certain is that that this individual was adamantly opposed to the Chihiro-Schueler regime. In that context, it was inevitable that conspiracy theories abound as it is to want to credit one's current enemy with evildoing. The only thing we are completely assured of is Khody's identification of the fallen as the followers of Kauyung.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:44 am

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Nimue/Merlin had the list of Project Ark Command Staff and actually knew some of them.

If Grimaldi was a "made-up" person, Nimue would have known it.

In the info that Pei provided Nimue, Grimaldi was very likely listed as an ally of Shan-Wei.

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
Isilith wrote:

Umm, what? We know that Grimaldi was considered a fallen angel, we also know he was listed as the angel of pestilence. This after some of the fallen "arch-angels" that followed Shan-Wei were not only named, but listed with their sphere of influence, so to speak.

All of that makes it a pretty iron clad surety that Grimaldi was one of the members of Shan-Wei's inner circle and a "fallen angel".


Actually, we don't even know if Grimaldi ever existed. Only some of Alexandria Enclave staff were named in _Off Armageddon Reef_. Remember all the sins that the Book of Chihiro attributes to Shan-Wei were actually committed by Langhorne and company.
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: What exactly Grimaldi did?
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:04 am

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Re: Concerning my disinclination to assume that Grimaldi ever existed.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Nimue/Merlin had the list of Project Ark Command Staff and actually knew some of them.

If Grimaldi was a "made-up" person, Nimue would have known it.

In the info that Pei provided Nimue, Grimaldi was very likely listed as an ally of Shan-Wei.



There is a paragraph in August, year of God 890 .VII:

"Merlin had no personal memory of the majority of Shan-Wei's 'fallen archangels.' Nimue had found most of them in the computers in her caves, but if the original Nimue had ever met or known them, that knowledge had never been uploaded to her PICA. ..."

Note: "found most of them" - that implies at least one of the names that Chihiro libeled wasn't mentioned in the computers.
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