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Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan

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Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by wtcollins3   » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:54 pm

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So what was the plan behind putting advanced tech in the Temple? I get that this is science fiction and they were an advanced society and their tech lasted a long time, but no tech no matter how advanced is truly self sustaining. What would happen to the religion they created when God's temple started failing 10K-100K years down the road because there wasn't anyone performing maintenance? Wouldn't that cause people to doubt the religion that Langhorne had created?
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Re: Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by evilauthor   » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:03 pm

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Pretty sure no one in Langhorne's faction (aside from secret heretics like Kau-yung) was thinking that far ahead. Plus they were arrogant enough to believe that their artificial social system could last literally forever despite knowing full well that stars and thus the planets that orbit them have limited lifespans.

It's an in-universe version of Writers Have No Sense of Scale.
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Re: Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:59 pm

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If they have industrial modules under the Temple, it could last literally forever, just repairing and replacing damage.
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Re: Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by Bluesqueak   » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:21 am

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They're the Church of God Awaiting. The tech doesn't have to last forever - just until whoever or whatever turns up.

I'd also point out that many real-world religions are perfectly capable of surviving events like the destruction of the Temple.

However, I think that in this case they don't have to. I think there were two factions of Temple Archangels - one that was full-on Langhorne's Plan, and one that was fully on board for keeping a working example of technology- for the inevitable moment when the no-tech society began to develop beyond the Proscriptions. A working example with secret records, or maybe an AI.

And the second faction stayed undercover. Working in the lion's den, so to speak.
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Re: Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by WeberFan   » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:35 am

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wtcollins3 wrote:So what was the plan behind putting advanced tech in the Temple? I get that this is science fiction and they were an advanced society and their tech lasted a long time, but no tech no matter how advanced is truly self sustaining. What would happen to the religion they created when God's temple started failing 10K-100K years down the road because there wasn't anyone performing maintenance? Wouldn't that cause people to doubt the religion that Langhorne had created?

There is textev about the various systems being maintained by automated bots. Likely that this is for the "behind the curtain" stuff and not the stuff that's out in the open. Wouldn't be too cool to see a servitor running around fixing a clogged drain or replacing a light bulb I guess...
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Re: Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by shayvaan   » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:52 pm

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Thinking about potential flaws, there is one glaring one that neither Langhorne or anyone else could do about:

What happens when some other race within say 50 light years runs into the Gbaba, get crushed and when they go looking for possible colony sites they stumble upon Safehold.

At which point the OBS becomes irrelevant.


How long would that take? Who knowns? Manking found one of the Gbaba's victims, fortunately we seemed to be far enough away that they didn't find us then. Care to make odds on that happening again?


P.S. Although, on more mature thought, we were never told how long ago that other victim was killed. Perhaps, shades of the Achuultani, they DID find earth and just hit it hard enough to wipe out the dinosaurs as a long term precaution.
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Re: Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by Bluestrike2   » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:08 pm

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shayvaan wrote:Thinking about potential flaws, there is one glaring one that neither Langhorne or anyone else could do about:

What happens when some other race within say 50 light years runs into the Gbaba, get crushed and when they go looking for possible colony sites they stumble upon Safehold.

At which point the OBS becomes irrelevant.


How long would that take? Who knowns? Manking found one of the Gbaba's victims, fortunately we seemed to be far enough away that they didn't find us then. Care to make odds on that happening again?


P.S. Although, on more mature thought, we were never told how long ago that other victim was killed. Perhaps, shades of the Achuultani, they DID find earth and just hit it hard enough to wipe out the dinosaurs as a long term precaution.


Or perhaps there's another angry, genocidal species running about in space. The Federation knew of at least three species (the Alphanes, humanity, and the Gbaba) in relatively small region of the galaxy. All of which were active in a relatively short time frame of a few thousand years. If the Federation knows anything, it's that life--including technological life--is apparently quite common. Given enough time, it's quite possible humanity's hidden colony would be discovered by its neighbors at some point.

Maybe the new neighbors are xenophobic. Or slavers, well-worn trope that may be. Maybe there's a war going on in the region. Even a benevolent attempt at first contact would have gone poorly for Safehold thanks to the religious dogma imposed by Langhorne. The aliens are demons, full stop. Civilization would be torn apart, even if the "demons" just walk away. Or worse, what if the aliens managed to uplift humanity? Back in space, with nary a clue about the Gbaba or the true scale of the threat.

The Federation's original plan was one of desperation. They'd have known what they were risking, but they bet the future of the species on Safehold's pre-industrial period being long enough to go unnoticed by the Gbaba but short enough not to risk catastrophic first contact with another species before they were ready. Or before any of a number of other devastating outcomes could arise. I'd argue that the TF's cryo tech was what forced them into this gamble more than anything else; had cryo been viable beyond just a century or so, the fleet could have just hidden out in interstellar space for five centuries and we'd be reading a very different series.

Langhorne's plan was nothing of the sort. It was more wishful thinking than anything approaching a plan. Humanity could do everything right on Safehold per his plan and still be exterminated by the Gbaba if some other species led them towards Safehold. At least the original plan tried to factor in a risk analysis. Langhorne was emotionally scarred, and went for the option that would let him sleep easiest at night. That nobody just put a bullet in his head the moment he admitted what he did to the colonists makes it pretty clear that the entire command crew was emotionally broken well beyond what RFC has already alluded to.
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Re: Potential flaw? In Langhornes plan
Post by Undercover Fat Kid   » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:48 pm

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The Langhorne plan was inherently flawed from the outset, for many reasons, not the least of which being the way that there was no discernible fallback plan for if the initial installation of the new society failed in some way. Not to mention the lack of a system of dynamic tensions that help keep one group or body from being too powerful.

I am curious about what failure Merlin and Nahrmin see and how it will affect the story arc moving forward.
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Death is as a feather,
Duty is as a mountain
This life is a dream
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