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TFT Snippet #2

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: TFT Snippet #2
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:58 pm

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My problem was mixing up the names, not with not knowing how they work.

Louis R wrote:Zipperheads take a keen interest in the stuff the rest of us use to slaughter them, so you can be sure he knows what he's talking about.

You could be thinking of the various configurations of APDS [Armour-Piercing Discarding Sabot] that are the principle weapons they use on each other: modern tank guns have very high muzzle velocities and can get a sub-calibre long rod penetrator through armour that shrugs off any practical HEAT round, so that's what they tend to use, although both HESH and HEAT rounds were still in their kit last time I checked. Basically, by the time the penetrator is inside the tank it's metal vapour and produces the same effects as HEAT, although I'm told that if you get the right shot at least part of it is still solid and it bounces around the inside until something goes BOOM
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Re: TFT Snippet #2
Post by OrlandoNative   » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:41 pm

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Randomiser wrote:I'm not sure that fact is in evidence. It depends what you understand by the word system in OBS. If it is only one bombardment platform with closely co-located defence systems, then the obvious thing is to use the shadow of the planet for launch and go stealth until you are so far away nothing is going to pick you up. However the OBS has to be designed to be able to detect and locate any (serious) infringement of the triggering Proscriptions anywhere on Safehold then deliver KEWs, maybe lots of KEWs on that location. It could well be that there are several detection and bombardment platforms with overlapping fields of view so there are no spaces for your initial launch to sneak through.

From what is said in OAR, it's not completely dispersed. Nor need it be. If it's in polar orbit, as the planet spins beneath it, it eventually covers every square inch of planetary surface.

Also, from various sources in the preceding books, it would appear that Federation tech level resources were higher to the "fallen" than what exists in Nimue's cave today. Since those same sources basically say the OBS's *defensive* capabilities were added AFTER the Alexandria strike; and possibly the War Against the Fallen itself; any attempt to "take it out" should be detectable far enough in advance for it to handle it before it got off the ground, so to speak.

While concentrating the offensive and defensive capabilities of the OBS is, in effect, "putting all one's eggs in a single basket"; dispersing them would make it far easier to "defeat in detail" - something a less capable or less advanced tech base would be much more likely to achieve than trying to overcome a concentrated, interlocking defense grid.
"Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again."
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Re: TFT Snippet #2
Post by OrlandoNative   » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:06 am

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mhicks wrote:To me anything leaving the orbit of Safehold would be considered hostile to the Langhorn design and shot by the OBS. Anything leaving orbit short of using hyperdrive would get destroyed the minute it was detected.

I think you forget the basic principles of an orbital bombardment system. It uses (primarily) the gravity of the planet to accelerate masses which then liberate tremendous energy upon impacting the surface. A la the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. Or, probably more likely in this case, made the meteor crater in Arizona. (Since the OBS in this case isn't intended to destroy all life on Safehold; just obliterate areas of emerging high technology). True, it may have "mass drivers" to increase the initial velocity; and; if the masses in question are at least somewhat heat resistant; then they can be smaller than, say, a small asteroid and still accomplish similar destruction.

A planet from orbit is; basically, stationary in relative terms; a spaceship or any other vehicle is not. The likelyhood of an OBS projectile being able to intercept something capable of any evasion is minimal at best. Given that, according to previous books, the range of the defensive interceptors is only a few thousand kilometers; it's unlikely they would be able to hit an escaping craft either.

And, of course, by the time the OBS was in place, the only ship allegedly capable of leaving the planet was Langhornes - all the rest had been sent into the local star to be destroyed; so there'd really be no reason to add anything other than local space defense capabilities to the OBS. Probably more to protect it from natural space debris than any deliberate attack.

On another note, we don't hear about any warships in the colonizing fleet *other* than those under Commodore Pei's command. I'm reasonably sure that if, in fact, any actual warships still existed by the time the OBS was created, that he would have taken personal command of one and destroyed it; once he knew of it's existence. For that matter, he probably would have utilized it rather than the backpack nuke to neutralize Langhorne and all his followers rather than let a few survivors here and there across the planet escape to continue Langhorne's plan.
"Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again."
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Re: TFT Snippet #2
Post by wkernochan   » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:43 pm

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Just as a naïve exercise, I thought I'd guess at what happens in North Harchong between war's end and snippet 2 that resulted in this kind of overthrow. It goes like this:

Phase 1, fall 898-spring 899: The shortages, inflation, and indebtedness resulting from the war rebound on all COGA economies, including the Harchongese. Starvation for many serfs is the result, with attendant uprisings, but these lack force due to the absence of the serfs in the army. Meanwhile, the start of Duchairn's reforms falls with especial force on the Harchongese clergy, since these were especially favored (in particular Chihirites and Schuelerites) under Clyntahn. This, in turn, weakens both their political power in the COGA and their ability to convert that to economic control of their Harchongese estates. Thus, some of the funding for suppression of serf rebellions is reduced.

Phase 2, spring 899-start of 900. Economic activity in North Harchong begins to improve, but at a very slow pace given North Harchong's lack of infrastructure and emphasis on land as a criterion of political power. By contrast, South Harchong is able to bounce back much better, since inland-canal infrastructure is still intact and it is better equipped to begin rebuilding a merchant fleet. There are increasing murmurs of unrest in North Harchong's clergy about Duchairn's initial attempts to revise doctrine in order to reach a modus vivendi with Charis and Siddermark.

In summer, Emperor Waisu decides to issue a formal ban on the return of the Mighty Host. Continuing low-level serf unrest plus strong opposition by the nobility (and clergy) leads to this move. The Mighty Host, meanwhile, has wintered in the Temple Lands, where it is a welcome counterweight to the disruptive presence of Siddermarkian refugees, and sharing supplies with the locals has won them some significant approbation, especially when readjustment of borders occurred. Thus, its ongoing presence in the Temple Lands is leading many of its members to consider settling there permanently -- similar climate, little or no serfdom, and some extra land available due to the ravages of the recent invasion. Rainbow Waters works effectively with duChairn to keep matters under control once the (anticipated) ban arrives.

Phase 3, 901: The ban, as noted does not require universal oaths, and some of the serfs of the Mighty Host return clandestinely to North Harchong, quietly abetted by their superiors. The same is not true of Harchong enforcement, that is, of the Emperor's Spears seconded to the Mighty Host. It is in the countryside, therefore, that the initial effects of the influx of trained serfs begins to be felt. They introduce the idea of coordination and guerilla tactics, establishing a North Harchong network of "cells". Initially, the Harchongese military does not detect the change in tactics, only perceiving a slight increase in the ongoing "brush fire" of flareups, apparently due to the continuing economic hardships.

The clergy of North Harchong is now quite concerned with duChairn's reforms. However, the clergy of South Harchong are much more mixed in their reactions. The resulting infighting prevents a coherent move to break off from the COGA and establish a "purified" church. The Mighty Host begins informally to settle in the Temple Lands permanently.

Phase 4, 902: The serf "rebellion network" is now fully functional, has established initial branches in the cities, and is now following a long-term strategy. This manifests itself during the year as extreme danger should enforcement travel in the countryside away from the roads or in small groups. Thus, enforcement travels in large groups, effectively leaving significant parts of the countryside controlled by the rebels. In reaction, the court considers removing the ban for former Emperor's Spears, but decides it is too risky, as these may have been "infected" and might therefore choose to aid the rebels instead. Rainbow Waters is blamed for the unrest, as there is some sense that the very example of the Mighty Host is corroding serf obedience.

The incipient North Harchongese church rupture is halted as clergy grow increasingly uneasy about their properties. These feel the need for religious backing for bringing the power of the COGA to bear on serf religious belief -- establishing a separate church would mean that serfs would be more skeptical of anathemas on revolt pronounced by a less than fully accepted brand of COGA. However, the continuing tensions on all sides prevent the COGA from intervening in the conflict at all.

At the end of the year, the North Harchongese court bureaucracy concludes that the only way to reverse the successes of the rebellion is to expedite delivery of newer, more powerful weapons that allow smaller groups to be more successful against rebel slings and guerilla tactics. Due to North Harchongese deficiencies in production, these will not be available until … Snippet 2.

Comments? Condescension? Barely suppressed laughter?
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