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Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by mhicks   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:46 pm

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Randomiser wrote:
PeterZ wrote:So, the Inner Crcle has to plan for a return of either 15 or ~100 years. They have to plan on NOT introducing electricity for those periods. If the return happens in 15, then the Reveal resolves the Safehold issues one way or the other. Introducing electricity and other technological advances may begin afterwards, if they survive. If the Return doesn't happen in 15 years, the IC needs to continue their plan of deseminating all tecgnology short of electricity.

Either way, establishing a hidden and shielded production center for more fabbers is almost a necessity.


Well, maybe. They have to decide whether to leave the strategic momentum with the other side or to try to take it themselves. That is, do they let the 'Archangel's Return' happen and hope they can cope with it, or do they try to get their retaliation in first, hoping that will give them a better chance of coming out on the winning side? For example, if they reckon the control loop really is broken, and even if not, it may be a whole lot better to take out the OBS even if doing so wakens up whatever is under the Temple early, rather than allowing it to waken up with the OBS still active and potentially under its control. It seems that merely investigating the OBS won't be a big problem, since it wasn't before. Of course trying to take it out and failing might be a bad move ...


However you look at it, you are right about more production capacity. Tools to build tools, to build more secret TF tech. Military spacecraft if possible. Nimue's cave is a massive single point of failure, they need to build as capable a back-up as possible. Then maybe OWL #2 could have a go at deciphering the Key. Would the upside to deciphering the Key, be enough to counter the downside that it may be an important part of the return? [If it turns out to be an SD card with wifi, for example] Maybe they should just go ahead and force the Key to self destruct.

As Nahrman so colourfully says, the last thing they can afford to do is to let themselves become paralysed by worrying about the possible effects of their actions.


Well if they can make an OWL#2 in another location, they could put it all in a Faraday cage before playing with it. No broadcast would be let out. I doubt they would use a hyper com link that could be detected by the Gbaba, especially if it is trying to link back up with the OBS or Temple computer. Unless there is some part of physics I missed when dozing off in class about radio waves and electrical signals.
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by mhicks   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:10 pm

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ywing14 wrote:— from The Life of Merlin Athrawes, Zhakleen Wylsynn,
Tellesberg, Royal University Press, 4217.

This might be my favorite part "4217". That's a long way off.


Ok reading through the wonderful snippet I noticed the time line has Niume waking up at 3249, and that the Book in question is printed in Tellesberg 4217. The snippet come in at

The question is, is the book being written in 4217 TF time, or of Safe hold time when the book was written. Because we are coming in at 890 Safehold time.

TF time = 968 from when she wakes up
Safehold time = 3327 years from the opening of this book.

I am going to assume it is TF time. And if that is the case then this book from Zhakleen Wylsynn is written just before the Phoenix TF troops go off to battle the Gbaba or after the war is over. Notice it is an assumption.

So it sounds as if the Next 968 years are going to be told from two perspectives. We are continuing on the story line the way we are used to with a possible narration coming from Zhakleen Wylsynn to jump ahead in the story and the nitty-gritty details will be lost that we are all accustomed too, but the story will speed up to bring the war against the Gbaba to us sooner too.
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by Undercover Fat Kid   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:31 pm

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Firstly, let me say, “THANK YOU RFC!!!!” I always look forward to your snippets and they are a big part of the reason I keep buying your books. They keep me engaged and remind me when it’s time to get my order in :-)

I do have to say that while I do like the idea of seeing how the one goes about overthrowing a genuinely worldwide religion, trying to explain to a group of Flat Earth believers that we do, in fact, live on a globe, has led me to the conclusion that merely showing incontrovertible facts that can be demonstrated in anyone’s back yard if they care to try is no guarantee that the truth will be recognized. Nevertheless, my inner sci-fi geek is eager to see what the war with the Gbaba will bring, because I’ve read several series’s from RFC and it’s always a kick to see what limits and approaches are adopted in terms of futuristic technology he decides to roll with.

Also, positively salivating at the idea of having more back story from the Federation. Perhaps it’s an unhealthy personality trait manifesting itself in my reading habits, but reading stories from the perspective of the doomed always goes over well with me (which is why I’m such a fan of the Bolo series).
.
.
Death is as a feather,
Duty is as a mountain
This life is a dream
From which we all
Must wake
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by Undercover Fat Kid   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:44 pm

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....addendum:

I think Merlin dies in this story arc. These types of history books tend to be written post mortem, me thinks :o
.
.
Death is as a feather,
Duty is as a mountain
This life is a dream
From which we all
Must wake
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:00 pm

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Undercover Fat Kid wrote:I do have to say that while I do like the idea of seeing how the one goes about overthrowing a genuinely worldwide religion, trying to explain to a group of Flat Earth believers that we do, in fact, live on a globe, has led me to the conclusion that merely showing incontrovertible facts that can be demonstrated in anyone’s back yard if they care to try is no guarantee that the truth will be recognized.


A bit of good anti-religion propaganda could help... USSR made a lot of anti-religion posters, some are quite good!

https://denis-strebkov.livejournal.com/114514.html


Image

(Translation: "Thank you for enormous cultural additions - but your place on the shelf with other myths and superstitions.")

;)
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by Bluesqueak   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:38 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
Undercover Fat Kid wrote:I do have to say that while I do like the idea of seeing how the one goes about overthrowing a genuinely worldwide religion, trying to explain to a group of Flat Earth believers that we do, in fact, live on a globe, has led me to the conclusion that merely showing incontrovertible facts that can be demonstrated in anyone’s back yard if they care to try is no guarantee that the truth will be recognized.


A bit of good anti-religion propaganda could help... USSR made a lot of anti-religion posters, some are quite good!



(Translation: "Thank you for enormous cultural additions - but your place on the shelf with other myths and superstitions.")
;)


Merlin and Nimue are both Christians. Don't think they'll be using that poster. :twisted:

I agree that demonstrating that we live on a world that is curved is fairly easy for anyone with a boat and a telescope, but my experience with atheistic true believers, or the Jesus never existed crowd is that they've got a fairly 'sophisticated' system whereby they provide reasons to exclude any evidence that doesn't fit their worldview. Flat Earthers probably have that same kind of set-up. Whatever evidence you hand them, they'll be prepped with an explanation of why that evidence is fraudulent.

Safehold has the opposite problem - all the evidence is in favour of the Archangels. It's the Inner Circle who've got to find ways of excluding a mass of historical evidence and explain why it's fraudulent. Not to mention the scientific stuff in the Writ that also provides 'proof'.

I think that the reason the Inner Circle has so far had very little problem in convincing people is that a) They have the author on their side and b) Both St. Zherneau's and the Sisterhood of St Khody had several centuries of experience in spotting who would be open minded enough to the truth.

But RFC has told us that there are indeed cracks in the Writ's worldview. It doesn't quite fit reality. And when those cracks start to become obvious, the Writ will break apart - because even if people still believe in the Archangels, it will become more and more apparent that those Archangels lied.
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:11 pm

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PeterZ wrote:One assumes this is the year 900 and the 890 is a typo.



Surly you have heard what happens when we ASS u ME

I would like to volunteer to be a beta reader
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:28 pm

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PeterZ wrote:So, the Inner Crcle has to plan for a return of either 15 or ~100 years. They have to plan on NOT introducing electricity for those periods. If the return happens in 15, then the Reveal resolves the Safehold issues one way or the other. Introducing electricity and other technological advances may begin afterwards, if they survive. If the Return doesn't happen in 15 years, the IC needs to continue their plan of deseminating all tecgnology short of electricity.

Either way, establishing a hidden and shielded production center for more fabbers is almost a necessity.


I did not read the last thoughts as a policy to wait 15 ~ 100 years.
There could be a dozen different ideas introduced at the pending meeting of the IC and I think that we have all seen enough of the willingness to adapt and innovate.

Time will tell.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by dobriennm   » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:10 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:
thanatos wrote:
I have wondered about the Gbaba on occasion and thought that perhaps their motives, alien though they might be, are also essentially religious. It is possible that they view themselves as the most perfect beings in creation and seek to eliminate all other "demons" in the cosmos. It could equally be a desire to eliminate evolutionary competition as well, but RFC has done that theme in the past (the Kanga/Shirmaksu in the Apocalypse Troll stand alone). I also doubt he'll use the Achuultanni example from the Dahak series (i.e. aliens controlled by a computer that wishes to maintain control over them and is thought to be a god to them). He could of course come up with something truly alien but given the centrality of religion as a force for good and evil in the Safehold series, something tells me the Gbaba's motives might also be religious.



They aren't. :)


I read another series of books by a different author who had had a slightly different idea for aliens who instinctively exterminate any other intelligent race they meet.

His idea was this race evolved on a world with two intelligent species- think humans in 100,000 BCE existing with intelligent Velociraptors (human sized therapod dinosaurs) at the same technology level (spears at best).

So basically a long (100,000 years) struggle between the two species with each side eating the other (kids, eggs, everyone) as part of the spoils of victory. And each side improving their "technology" over that time. With the end result being one species exterminates the other (with technology levels like we had 2000 years ago) and the victor continues technology advancement to space travel.

Then the victor encounters another intelligent race. What's the likelihood of the victors saying "Yes, let's make friends with this other species! We've had such success with that in the past. :( ". At that point it's liable to be instinctual to kill first (you didn't survive if you didn't kill the other first).

It's a variation on evolutionary competition, but mixing up both intelligence and basic animal instinct.
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Re: Through Fiery Trials, Snippet #1
Post by Louis R   » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:35 pm

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That's the "Kanga/Shirmaksu" scenario thanatos refers to.

As indicated, Himself tends not to repeat on that level. However, he did lift the 'religious suppression of technolgy' from Safehold for Heirs of Empire when it didn't appear that Safehold would ever see the light of day, so it's possible that Apocalypse Troll was written using another major element from this series for its background.

I'm rather inclined to doubt it, mind you, and even if he did, he's had plenty of time to come up with an alternative - and no doubt very original - explanation.

dobriennm wrote:I read another series of books by a different author who had had a slightly different idea for aliens who instinctively exterminate any other intelligent race they meet.

His idea was this race evolved on a world with two intelligent species- think humans in 100,000 BCE existing with intelligent Velociraptors (human sized therapod dinosaurs) at the same technology level (spears at best).

So basically a long (100,000 years) struggle between the two species with each side eating the other (kids, eggs, everyone) as part of the spoils of victory. And each side improving their "technology" over that time. With the end result being one species exterminates the other (with technology levels like we had 2000 years ago) and the victor continues technology advancement to space travel.

Then the victor encounters another intelligent race. What's the likelihood of the victors saying "Yes, let's make friends with this other species! We've had such success with that in the past. :( ". At that point it's liable to be instinctual to kill first (you didn't survive if you didn't kill the other first).

It's a variation on evolutionary competition, but mixing up both intelligence and basic animal instinct.


runsforcelery wrote:They aren't. :)

thanatos wrote:
I have wondered about the Gbaba on occasion and thought that perhaps their motives, alien though they might be, are also essentially religious. It is possible that they view themselves as the most perfect beings in creation and seek to eliminate all other "demons" in the cosmos. It could equally be a desire to eliminate evolutionary competition as well, but RFC has done that theme in the past (the Kanga/Shirmaksu in the Apocalypse Troll stand alone). I also doubt he'll use the Achuultanni example from the Dahak series (i.e. aliens controlled by a computer that wishes to maintain control over them and is thought to be a god to them). He could of course come up with something truly alien but given the centrality of religion as a force for good and evil in the Safehold series, something tells me the Gbaba's motives might also be religious.
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