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Safehold: Story line Speculation

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:39 am

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n7axw wrote:Hi C.O.

I think we are going to disagree on this... So we will have to wait and see how it all works out.

Don

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That is OK with me... I never claimed to have all the answers... I don't even claim to have all the questions...
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by wlhollis   » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:48 pm

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I think, one way or another, the "Archangels" return will cause the big reveal and the end of the Proscriptions. I have a few theories on what that "return" might look like, but it most likely leads to a direct and open doctrinal conflict that can only end in the complete collapse of the Church.

After that happens I don't think it would take long at all to regain the previous tech level. They already have a huge head start in manufacturing capability, completely aside from what is hidden in the cave. Able to openly use the knowledge available to them, and using the manufacturing capacity they built to make cannons, they could build Delthak into a modern plant in a few years. They don't have to go through the trial and error we did the first time. Their tech level is already within about a hundred years of what ours was when we put a man on the moon in a lot of ways, and we had to figure out how to do it (by building missiles to shoot at each other) first. How long could it really take to get back to space with a cheat sheet?

I think as soon as the "Return" is dealt with it's Gbaba hunting time within the short term. The job is huge, but with the advantages that automation and nannites will give them in manufacturing, added to the education and training shortcuts available, they could have a respectable fleet in a few decades. I think they still have to get a limited off-planet manufacturing capability in the interim though. The orbital platform will have to be dealt with, and they don't have the resources to do that. Nor can they build it on planet without risking a kinetic bombardment.
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by n7axw   » Fri May 04, 2018 1:57 pm

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wlhollis wrote:I think, one way or another, the "Archangels" return will cause the big reveal and the end of the Proscriptions. I have a few theories on what that "return" might look like, but it most likely leads to a direct and open doctrinal conflict that can only end in the complete collapse of the Church.

After that happens I don't think it would take long at all to regain the previous tech level. They already have a huge head start in manufacturing capability, completely aside from what is hidden in the cave. Able to openly use the knowledge available to them, and using the manufacturing capacity they built to make cannons, they could build Delthak into a modern plant in a few years. They don't have to go through the trial and error we did the first time. Their tech level is already within about a hundred years of what ours was when we put a man on the moon in a lot of ways, and we had to figure out how to do it (by building missiles to shoot at each other) first. How long could it really take to get back to space with a cheat sheet?

I think as soon as the "Return" is dealt with it's Gbaba hunting time within the short term. The job is huge, but with the advantages that automation and nannites will give them in manufacturing, added to the education and training shortcuts available, they could have a respectable fleet in a few decades. I think they still have to get a limited off-planet manufacturing capability in the interim though. The orbital platform will have to be dealt with, and they don't have the resources to do that. Nor can they build it on planet without risking a kinetic bombardment.


The issue here is that they can't simply crip Owl's notes, build it and charge after the Gbaba. They need an ever expanding scientific community to not only absorb Owl's material but understand it well enough to advance upon it, to build upon it. They have to have both an industrial plant that is big enough to produce the large amounts of war material they will need. Remember that Charis is, when all is said, a very small country. And as impressive as their accomplishments have been in a short amount of time, their industrial base, though beginning to verge on modern, is still tiny compared to what is truly needed.

Then they need more people before they would be ready to go Gbaba hunting. IIRC, the TF had 30 billion people under arms at the time of the TFs fall. Right now Safehold has a billion or so people. What that is going to mean is that Safehold is going to make it into space and find worlds to colonize and expand its industrial base to those worlds as well as working to advance the tech beyond the floor that the TF HAS established in Owl's data base. Safehold needs to be the center of a human civilization at least as large as the TF at its fall.

I really don't know how long it will take, but will be neither quick or easy. The task will be generational. It will be interesting to see how it all works out.

Don

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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun May 06, 2018 7:43 am

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Don is getting back to some of my question when started this post... I asked about the "wall paper" as a way of saying... "what will be going on in the background" when the next book is set. Will there be space based industry and ship yards? will there be courses of study at the Royal College that teach Federation Science? Will some of the older members of the inner circle be 'retired' and moved either into PICA's or elsewhere with longevity treatments?
I think "ALL OF THE ABOVE" because it is not possible to simply 'crib owls notes' and go off looking for the Gbaba. There has to be an infrastructure to support the fleet and this included people that understand how things work so they can fix and improve them.


n7axw wrote:
wlhollis wrote:I think, one way or another, the "Archangels" return will cause the big reveal and the end of the Proscriptions. I have a few theories on what that "return" might look like, but it most likely leads to a direct and open doctrinal conflict that can only end in the complete collapse of the Church.

After that happens I don't think it would take long at all to regain the previous tech level. They already have a huge head start in manufacturing capability, completely aside from what is hidden in the cave. Able to openly use the knowledge available to them, and using the manufacturing capacity they built to make cannons, they could build Delthak into a modern plant in a few years. They don't have to go through the trial and error we did the first time. Their tech level is already within about a hundred years of what ours was when we put a man on the moon in a lot of ways, and we had to figure out how to do it (by building missiles to shoot at each other) first. How long could it really take to get back to space with a cheat sheet?

I think as soon as the "Return" is dealt with it's Gbaba hunting time within the short term. The job is huge, but with the advantages that automation and nannites will give them in manufacturing, added to the education and training shortcuts available, they could have a respectable fleet in a few decades. I think they still have to get a limited off-planet manufacturing capability in the interim though. The orbital platform will have to be dealt with, and they don't have the resources to do that. Nor can they build it on planet without risking a kinetic bombardment.


The issue here is that they can't simply crip Owl's notes, build it and charge after the Gbaba. They need an ever expanding scientific community to not only absorb Owl's material but understand it well enough to advance upon it, to build upon it. They have to have both an industrial plant that is big enough to produce the large amounts of war material they will need. Remember that Charis is, when all is said, a very small country. And as impressive as their accomplishments have been in a short amount of time, their industrial base, though beginning to verge on modern, is still tiny compared to what is truly needed.

Then they need more people before they would be ready to go Gbaba hunting. IIRC, the TF had 30 billion people under arms at the time of the TFs fall. Right now Safehold has a billion or so people. What that is going to mean is that Safehold is going to make it into space and find worlds to colonize and expand its industrial base to those worlds as well as working to advance the tech beyond the floor that the TF HAS established in Owl's data base. Safehold needs to be the center of a human civilization at least as large as the TF at its fall.

I really don't know how long it will take, but will be neither quick or easy. The task will be generational. It will be interesting to see how it all works out.

Don

-
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by Fireflair   » Sun May 06, 2018 10:59 pm

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Well, I would guess that the next book will be set with plenty of problems cropping up between the countries and we'll see a lot of that while Nimue and Merlin worry about bigger issues, like the angel's return and what's beneath the temple.

I doubt that there will be any space based infrastructure, nor anything going on at the royal college about the TF tech. They will certainly be teaching there, and all over, about how to think for yourselves, to be innovative, etc. I think it's quite possible that they'll have OWL firing up the fab modules and building what he can underground. As much supporting structures, equipment, facilities, etc.

He could be building a lot of the ground based tools that are needed to educate the populace, equipment for facilities or supplies and materials for same. Even if it's just being done to save time it will be something that can be done now without a lot of attention needed and will definitely save some time down the road.

I suspect that there won't be an education units or brain dumps appearing for the inner circle, even their children, Safehold just wouldn't be ready for them. Perhaps their children's children will be. I can easily see them all getting nanos though, longevity treatments too. When they start getting a bit old for their positions they'll be shuffled off somewhere else, given some plastic surgery and reappear to take on a new task.

Quite possibly the inner circle who can't be seen in public any more due to longevity would move to the cave to begin studying fully TF tech instead of dealing with the issues besetting Charis.
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by n7axw   » Mon May 07, 2018 6:09 pm

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Fireflair wrote:Well, I would guess that the next book will be set with plenty of problems cropping up between the countries and we'll see a lot of that while Nimue and Merlin worry about bigger issues, like the angel's return and what's beneath the temple.

I doubt that there will be any space based infrastructure, nor anything going on at the royal college about the TF tech. They will certainly be teaching there, and all over, about how to think for yourselves, to be innovative, etc. I think it's quite possible that they'll have OWL firing up the fab modules and building what he can underground. As much supporting structures, equipment, facilities, etc.

He could be building a lot of the ground based tools that are needed to educate the populace, equipment for facilities or supplies and materials for same. Even if it's just being done to save time it will be something that can be done now without a lot of attention needed and will definitely save some time down the road.

I suspect that there won't be an education units or brain dumps appearing for the inner circle, even their children, Safehold just wouldn't be ready for them. Perhaps their children's children will be. I can easily see them all getting nanos though, longevity treatments too. When they start getting a bit old for their positions they'll be shuffled off somewhere else, given some plastic surgery and reappear to take on a new task.

Quite possibly the inner circle who can't be seen in public any more due to longevity would move to the cave to begin studying fully TF tech instead of dealing with the issues besetting Charis.


I would suspect that from here on, we aren't going to have a continuous storyline like we had from OAR to AtSoT. TFT is just the beginning of that. The follow on will be 100 or so years from the end of the previous one. The between times will be briefly described as back story.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by Fireflair   » Mon May 07, 2018 10:50 pm

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A lot just depends on how the MWW wants to go about it. I could envision the story dealing with some political trouble for a book, with the development of resources and plans to deal with the satellite happening on the side. Preparing for the angel's returns. Next book dealing with the angels and the big reveal happening. A third book getting them into space and building up the infrastructure. All three books could happen over the span of 100 years. The next book(s) would be finding and facing the Gabaa after another time jump to have the new TF have time to colonize, develop technologies, etc.
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by pbreed   » Tue May 08, 2018 12:05 am

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I think that its possible to provide lots of details about technology at levels at or below present day tech.


I think its possible to put together a consistent world with technology much advanced from today, aka magic....
but with consistent rules and limitations.

I think writing a detailed story that transitions through today's level of tech on its way to some future advanced magic is basically impossible. If you have not plausible how does it work, and no plausible path from here to there....

I fear that the chief celery chomper has written himself into a corner in this regard and it will be illuminating to see how he extricates himself from that corner...
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Tue May 08, 2018 2:17 pm

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Perhaps... however, I expect most of the international problems will have been resolved ((I read somewhere that it will be about 20 years later)and it took about six years to weaken the church and build the Victory Ships...

I am guessing that "the kids" will be fully educated in the TF tech and that there should be a range of industry that will have replicated and doubled the tech base in the cave...

But (hey) I have been wrong before


Fireflair wrote:Well, I would guess that the next book will be set with plenty of problems cropping up between the countries and we'll see a lot of that while Nimue and Merlin worry about bigger issues, like the angel's return and what's beneath the temple.

I doubt that there will be any space based infrastructure, nor anything going on at the royal college about the TF tech. They will certainly be teaching there, and all over, about how to think for yourselves, to be innovative, etc. I think it's quite possible that they'll have OWL firing up the fab modules and building what he can underground. As much supporting structures, equipment, facilities, etc.

He could be building a lot of the ground based tools that are needed to educate the populace, equipment for facilities or supplies and materials for same. Even if it's just being done to save time it will be something that can be done now without a lot of attention needed and will definitely save some time down the road.

I suspect that there won't be an education units or brain dumps appearing for the inner circle, even their children, Safehold just wouldn't be ready for them. Perhaps their children's children will be. I can easily see them all getting nanos though, longevity treatments too. When they start getting a bit old for their positions they'll be shuffled off somewhere else, given some plastic surgery and reappear to take on a new task.

Quite possibly the inner circle who can't be seen in public any more due to longevity would move to the cave to begin studying fully TF tech instead of dealing with the issues besetting Charis.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Safehold: Story line Speculation
Post by n7axw   » Tue May 08, 2018 4:16 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:Perhaps... however, I expect most of the international problems will have been resolved ((I read somewhere that it will be about 20 years later)and it took about six years to weaken the church and build the Victory Ships...

I am guessing that "the kids" will be fully educated in the TF tech and that there should be a range of industry that will have replicated and doubled the tech base in the cave...

But (hey) I have been wrong before



The political, cultural and religious issues are a whole lot more twisty and comlicated to deal with than the tech ones... If the tech was all there was to deal with, they could start the first training class on TF tech at the Royal College tommorrow.

But I'm afraid that wouldn't work out very well...

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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