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Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn

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Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by oyohan   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:17 pm

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I've been rereading the Safehold series again and something bothers me.

Considering the insane contributions Howsmyn makes, why hasn't the Clyntan targeted him for assassination? It would seem so easy.

There's a specific passage where he's riding his bicycle and people have to literally jump out of the way to avoid getting run over at one of his plants. These are regular workers getting off a shift and are within striking range of one of the most central contributors to Charisian industry.

Points to Consider:
1. Howsmyn is a workaholic, it would be near impossible to replace him.
2. Howsmyn does not apparently travel with any security. Given I cant recall any specific passages of him travelling anywhere but he does traverse his sprawling manufacturies and he's around probably thousands of "unscreened" employees throughout the day.
3. How difficult would it be get a rakurai infiltrated to work and then blow himself up when Howsmyn rides his bike nearby?

And before you tell me they don't think that way:

4. A single inquisition agent was able to secure plans for steel manufacture in Sidamark by inciting a riot and killing that guy from Charis's technical mission.
5. Hirawtha Mill Explosion - not planned but proof they can get agents deep inside.
6. Hecktor & Iris wedding bombing.
7. Assassination attempts of Michael Staynair & Sharlyn

Towards the latter books, it's Charis's industrialization that defeats the AoG. Why not attack it or the people responsible for it?

I find it odd that somebody as important as Howsmyn has no security. They're not there and Weber doesn't write about it, the scenes he describes are detailed enough to know that at least within the delfak works, he has no bodyguards.

The passage where he rides his bicycle or the King Haarald fire are some examples.
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by n7axw   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:57 pm

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oyohan wrote:I've been rereading the Safehold series again and something bothers me.

Considering the insane contributions Howsmyn makes, why hasn't the Clyntan targeted him for assassination? It would seem so easy.

There's a specific passage where he's riding his bicycle and people have to literally jump out of the way to avoid getting run over at one of his plants. These are regular workers getting off a shift and are within striking range of one of the most central contributors to Charisian industry.

Points to Consider:
1. Howsmyn is a workaholic, it would be near impossible to replace him.
2. Howsmyn does not apparently travel with any security. Given I cant recall any specific passages of him travelling anywhere but he does traverse his sprawling manufacturies and he's around probably thousands of "unscreened" employees throughout the day.
3. How difficult would it be get a rakurai infiltrated to work and then blow himself up when Howsmyn rides his bike nearby?

And before you tell me they don't think that way:

4. A single inquisition agent was able to secure plans for steel manufacture in Sidamark by inciting a riot and killing that guy from Charis's technical mission.
5. Hirawtha Mill Explosion - not planned but proof they can get agents deep inside.
6. Hecktor & Iris wedding bombing.
7. Assassination attempts of Michael Staynair & Sharlyn

Towards the latter books, it's Charis's industrialization that defeats the AoG. Why not attack it or the people responsible for it?

I find it odd that somebody as important as Howsmyn has no security. They're not there and Weber doesn't write about it, the scenes he describes are detailed enough to know that at least within the delfak works, he has no bodyguards.

The passage where he rides his bicycle or the King Haarald fire are some examples.


What you are saying is largely true. However the Delthak Works where he seems to spend most of his time is quite isolated from most of Manticore. And it is not a place you slip into and out of without being noticed. My impression is that overall security is tight. It has a huge number of workers, most of whom are quite commited to Howsmyn due to good wages and benefits.

But that being said, you still have a valid point.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by oyohan   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:32 pm

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I'm sure you meant Charis instead of Manitore who in this timeline never had the chance to exist.

But I'm also not talking about sneaking someone in to assassinate, I'm talking about getting a temple loyalist to simply apply and get hired. Lay low for a few months like Patrick Henree (sp?) and then strike at an opportune moment and maybe kill Howsmyn and all his top people.

Seems like the Inquisition action arm is easily capable of that.
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:13 pm

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oyohan wrote:I'm sure you meant Charis instead of Manitore who in this timeline never had the chance to exist.

But I'm also not talking about sneaking someone in to assassinate, I'm talking about getting a temple loyalist to simply apply and get hired. Lay low for a few months like Patrick Henree (sp?) and then strike at an opportune moment and maybe kill Howsmyn and all his top people.

Seems like the Inquisition action arm is easily capable of that.


I also think he meant Charis rather than Manticore...
But honestly, I think you would complain if they hung you with a golden rope. :o
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by n7axw   » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:09 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:
oyohan wrote:I'm sure you meant Charis instead of Manitore who in this timeline never had the chance to exist.

But I'm also not talking about sneaking someone in to assassinate, I'm talking about getting a temple loyalist to simply apply and get hired. Lay low for a few months like Patrick Henree (sp?) and then strike at an opportune moment and maybe kill Howsmyn and all his top people.

Seems like the Inquisition action arm is easily capable of that.


I also think he meant Charis rather than Manticore...
But honestly, I think you would complain if they hung you with a golden rope. :o


Yeah, I got my universes mixed. Too much time in the Honorverse lately. Now, C.O. Thompson, be nice... aa :D

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by oyohan   » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:23 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:But honestly, I think you would complain if they hung you with a golden rope. :o


Ouch. I'm not complaining... I've reread the series a dozen times. I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing. I also forgot to mention the assassination attempts on Eastshare and Greenvalley referenced in AtSoT. And I believe the accurate quote is a "new" rope.
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:47 pm

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oyohan wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:But honestly, I think you would complain if they hung you with a golden rope. :o


Ouch. I'm not complaining... I've reread the series a dozen times. I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing. I also forgot to mention the assassination attempts on Eastshare and Greenvalley referenced in AtSoT. And I believe the accurate quote is a "new" rope.


Oh I am sure that both golden and new ropes have been used in the quotes... ;)
I find my self in awe at the scope and detail of David's writing but I also think that Houseman not only was in a more secure location in that his complex was built from scratch but he was part of the inner circle from early on and I think that Merlin and Owl would logically have more eyes on that complex.
Your example of Green Valley could monitor the snarcs and the assassins could not get close and while I don't recall Text Ev that the same was true about Houseman, it is a logical explanation.

Let's keep David and his family in our prayers so nothing distracts him from his writing schedule... Henry Brown found a notice from David written last June that outlines his most ambitious schedule...
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by Randomiser   » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:00 am

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C. O. Thompson wrote:Let's keep David and his family in our prayers so nothing distracts him from his writing schedule... Henry Brown found a notice from David written last June that outlines his most ambitious schedule...


Oh no, that was his new, more restricted schedule! :o
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by thanatos   » Wed May 30, 2018 7:55 pm

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Howsmyn's security has probably been beefed up ever since HFAF and the Rakurai attacks back then. As noted there, the initial targets were high ranking government and church officials with the second round going for maximum carnage. Howsmyn would definitely be on the list of high-priority targets and after the first round of terror attacks, the Inner Circle wasn't going to take any more chances. Note Cayleb's forcing Staynair to accept greater security over any church he attends and the restrictions on wagon and transports throughout the empire.

So Howsmyn would have security even if there's no textev on it. He'd be ensconced in Delthak most of the time, surrounded by thousands of highly loyal employees who are likely to be mighty suspicious of any new comer employee who rubs them the wrong way. It would be hard for a Temple Loyalist to behave like a reformist if he is overly zealous in his beliefs. He is also a peer of the realm and the single wealthiest person on the planet (so he can afford security). Also, I would bet good money that Howsmyn vets any prospective employees very closely, especially for positions with access to confidential and proprietary information. Coupled with OWL's surveillance and clothing from anti-ballistic fabric and you get someone who is pretty hard to get to at his home or at work.

Indeed, the attack on Irys and Hektor only worked because they had to be in a very public place for a wedding that everyone in the princedom knew about and knew when and where it would take place. The Sword Rakurai that got Howsmyn's guy with the suitcase killed only succeeded because he was far from home (and in enemy territory to some extent), in public and unguarded. That last part was remedied immediately afterwards as mentioned in LAMA, when then mention his death and the body guard that another Charisian artisan has to walk around with. Howsmyn would need to be in a similarly public place to be that vulnerable and even then it would take a really big bomb to get to him (and everyone around him).
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Re: Assasination of Ehdwyrd Howsmyn
Post by saber964   » Thu May 31, 2018 6:48 pm

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IIRC the Hirantha mill explosion was done by an agent in place. He was already inside and trusted and didn't display any overt TL sympathies. He also made his own private communications with the Temple.
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