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Archangel Return

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Re: Archangel Return
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:35 am

Dilandu
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n7axw wrote:Assuming that something will happen at the time of the Archangel's return, how literally should we take that 1000 year figure? Is this sort of a rough plus or minus situation? That is we will be back "about then." Or is the figure symbolic. In the Bible the 1000 year figure symbolizes time without end.

If we rule out the symbolic idea, I would be inclined to go with it being literal since computers would have to be involved somehow and computers are pretty literal.

Don

-


To be exact, not all Safehold-verse AI's are literal-minded. Its just OWL, who was designed to serve as combat AI for warship, and thus was programmed to be literal-minded. It was mentioned that other AI's have a much more human-like personalities.
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- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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Re: Archangel Return
Post by n7axw   » Sat May 05, 2018 9:21 pm

n7axw
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Dilandu wrote:
n7axw wrote:Assuming that something will happen at the time of the Archangel's return, how literally should we take that 1000 year figure? Is this sort of a rough plus or minus situation? That is we will be back "about then." Or is the figure symbolic. In the Bible the 1000 year figure symbolizes time without end.

If we rule out the symbolic idea, I would be inclined to go with it being literal since computers would have to be involved somehow and computers are pretty literal.

Don

-


To be exact, not all Safehold-verse AI's are literal-minded. Its just OWL, who was designed to serve as combat AI for warship, and thus was programmed to be literal-minded. It was mentioned that other AI's have a much more human-like personalities.


Of course, at this moment in time Owl is the only AI that we've actually seen on Safehold. The two PICAs evolved from human personalities as did Nahrman. Are there AIs under the Temple? Or will it be something more like Nimue and Merlin?

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Archangel Return
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:08 pm

runsforcelery
First Space Lord

Posts: 1994
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Location: South Carolina

dobriennm wrote:I guess the only problem I have with the "20 years" estimate is the math

A Safehold year is about .91 of a Standard Year.

So the calculation should be

895 +(70/.91) = 895 + 77.8 = 972.8 or 973 approximately, not 979.

Admittedly, that's only 6 years difference, but it should have said about 25 years, not 20.

A minor quibble, I know.

To get the .91 factor, use

(301/365)*(26.5/24)=0.91056


WeberFan wrote:
Reference: HFaF, May, Year of God 895 .III. A Recon Skimmer, Above Carter's Ocean


And if Wylsynn's right about something "returning" in a thousand years, I may just need all the reinforcements I can get, he thought grimly. This is the year 895, but they've numbered their "Years of God" from the end of "Shan Wei's Rebellion," from the time the Church of God turned into the Church of God Awaiting. The Day of Creation was seventy years - Standard Years, not Safeholdian ones - before that. And that makes this year 979 since the Creation. Which means we've got twenty years, give or take, before whatever's going to happen happens.




Can you say "And when the author changed his mind during the writing process to extend the interval he got the number of years in the new interval right but forgot the change the date he first chose"?

My excuse: Merlin had a mental hiccup. Nimue's like Honor: she hates math! :lol:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Archangel Return
Post by dobriennm   » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:56 pm

dobriennm
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:44 pm

runsforcelery wrote:
Can you say "And when the author changed his mind during the writing process to extend the interval he got the number of years in the new interval right but forgot the change the date he first chose"?

My excuse: Merlin had a mental hiccup. Nimue's like Honor: she hates math! :lol:


Yea, I figured it was more of the trying to keep all the details straight (and there's a lot of details for you to keep track of) (and me being a little smart-ass about noticing it).

I always wondered, though, why Langthorne didn't change the definition of the "second" so rather than ~26.5 hours in a day there are 30 hours in a day. Makes clock making simpler and provides more evidence of "God's Miracles" in creating the World (30 hours in a day! - 30 days in a month!)

Probably lazy and a holdover from what was done on all the other colonies. Standard Operating Procedure thinking on Langthorne's part
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Re: Archangel Return
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:34 pm

runsforcelery
First Space Lord

Posts: 1994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:39 am
Location: South Carolina

dobriennm wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:
Can you say "And when the author changed his mind during the writing process to extend the interval he got the number of years in the new interval right but forgot the change the date he first chose"?

My excuse: Merlin had a mental hiccup. Nimue's like Honor: she hates math! :lol:


Yea, I figured it was more of the trying to keep all the details straight (and there's a lot of details for you to keep track of) (and me being a little smart-ass about noticing it).

I always wondered, though, why Langthorne didn't change the definition of the "second" so rather than ~26.5 hours in a day there are 30 hours in a day. Makes clock making simpler and provides more evidence of "God's Miracles" in creating the World (30 hours in a day! - 30 days in a month!)

Probably lazy and a holdover from what was done on all the other colonies. Standard Operating Procedure thinking on Langthorne's part



Part of it was force of habit, but don't forget what those extra minutes are called on Safehold. It's not "Compensate," as it is in the Honorverse, but rather "Langhorne's Watch." In other words, God created a day which was 26 hours long and then set aside a special 30-minute period in which His people are supposed to show their reverence for him and during which His presence on Earth (or, rather, Safehold) is most strongly felt and commemorated.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Archangel Return
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:30 am

Dilandu
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runsforcelery wrote:

Part of it was force of habit, but don't forget what those extra minutes are called on Safehold. It's not "Compensate," as it is in the Honorverse, but rather "Langhorne's Watch." In other words, God created a day which was 26 hours long and then set aside a special 30-minute period in which His people are supposed to show their reverence for him and during which His presence on Earth (or, rather, Safehold) is most strongly felt and commemorated.


Also a bit of just technical problems. While the lenght of day is generally of no technical concerns, the definition of second was clearly hardwired in all Archangel's high-tech equipment. Changing it would require to recalibrate just nearly everything they have, and it would be enormous waste of efforts & resources (not to mention, that it may led to potential software bugs & crashes).
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: Archangel Return
Post by dobriennm   » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:03 pm

dobriennm
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:44 pm

Dilandu wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:

Part of it was force of habit, but don't forget what those extra minutes are called on Safehold. It's not "Compensate," as it is in the Honorverse, but rather "Langhorne's Watch." In other words, God created a day which was 26 hours long and then set aside a special 30-minute period in which His people are supposed to show their reverence for him and during which His presence on Earth (or, rather, Safehold) is most strongly felt and commemorated.


Also a bit of just technical problems. While the lenght of day is generally of no technical concerns, the definition of second was clearly hardwired in all Archangel's high-tech equipment. Changing it would require to recalibrate just nearly everything they have, and it would be enormous waste of efforts & resources (not to mention, that it may led to potential software bugs & crashes).


A technical problem? Yes and no.

You are quite correct that it causes problems when you (one of the Angels) are doing calculations (like using your computer or high tech equipment). So when you as an Angel are doing things, you just keep using Earth Standard seconds on your equipment.

But when you are interacting with a muscle bound society using Roman numerals for numbers (not base 10 numbers like ours) keeping time/speed in the "new seconds/minutes/hours" shouldn't be that hard since you can have your clocks/velocimeters simply display that. After all, they had to have that kind of display conversion for their calendars since that's different from Earth Standard. (different day/month/year length). More than likely, they had to have that kind of display conversion for the sejjinn's gadgets so they wouldn't be confused.

I think we as persons accustomed to telling time done to the second on our watches, having speed displayed in 0.1 m/s increments, etc, that we forget that a muscle bound society doesn't think that way (no, they're not stupid, it's simply not needed in day to day life for pretty much everyone).

So yes, changing the definition of second on the computer/equipment would mess up everything and the Angels wouldn't do that.

But for display and interacting with the unaware colonists, the Angels had to do some display conversion anyway to keep synchronized with them. (even doing length conversions from meters to feet, etc)

But, the Author is right (well, the author is always right, obviously) that throwing in a daily reminder to show reverence to God is a much more powerful influence to help freeze the society in place. So that's the winning argument, really
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