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The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...

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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:35 pm

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I have to say that your scenario is plausible, Thanatos. I believe mine is as well. Heck, this can go many different ways.

My thought for Green Tree Island was more a revision of Haiti in the real world and Torch in RFC's universes. The idea of a state of freed slaves is an interesting one to juxtapose against other states which derived from different origins. Where Haiti was a nation that arose from chaos with very little outside guidance, Torch was a state that had some political guidance in its rise to nationhood from violent revolution. Green tree Island may well represent a nation that formed from the escapees of slavery and serfdom, but formed their nation in peace rather than violent revolution. That little exercise strikes me as interesting enough for RFC to engage in as well as a moral point he may well find useful; to use a s a plot device.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by thanatos   » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:14 am

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PeterZ wrote:I have to say that your scenario is plausible, Thanatos. I believe mine is as well. Heck, this can go many different ways.

My thought for Green Tree Island was more a revision of Haiti in the real world and Torch in RFC's universes. The idea of a state of freed slaves is an interesting one to juxtapose against other states which derived from different origins. Where Haiti was a nation that arose from chaos with very little outside guidance, Torch was a state that had some political guidance in its rise to nationhood from violent revolution. Green tree Island may well represent a nation that formed from the escapees of slavery and serfdom, but formed their nation in peace rather than violent revolution. That little exercise strikes me as interesting enough for RFC to engage in as well as a moral point he may well find useful; to use as a plot device.


That could be an interesting plot device, but I do think that in the context of the emerging cold war on Safehold, such a state would become one of several "buffer states" between the Charisian "heresy" and the Church, much like Austria was "neutral" during the Cold War. Perhaps all the islands throughout the Gulf of Dohlar will become similarly neutral, with the Charisians, Harchongese and Dohlarans prohibited from maintaining any naval presence in their waters (with their independent governments allowed to maintain limited forces against piracy). Again, I doubt Green Tree Island is big enough to contain all 2-3 million of the MH's soldiers, much less their families, in an early industrial era (no way will they become as populated as say Cuba or Haiti are today).

But at the same time, Harchong will still need their soldiers back, at least as an economic force. That is unless the feudal lords simply let the crops wither in the fields and the mines abandoned. In the end, they may just have to risk allowing them to return, perhaps with some "reward" for their services in the Jihad (like freedom and being allowed to hold on to their personal rifles) that comes with a lot of strings attached (which are all written into the contracts they signed - and which most cannot read). The senior officers and some of the lower ranking officers will be forced to remain in exile, which is how you hamper organization for a rebellion. So even if a bunch of veterans come home with their weapons and with revolutionary notions, they amount of damage and disruption they can cause would be limited. The Church in Harchong can be counted upon to stifle any news of a rebellion in a given village, thus containing any spark of revolution. Of course, we can be certain that the inner circle might be able to do something about that.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:05 pm

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thanatos wrote:That could be an interesting plot device, but I do think that in the context of the emerging cold war on Safehold, such a state would become one of several "buffer states" between the Charisian "heresy" and the Church, much like Austria was "neutral" during the Cold War. Perhaps all the islands throughout the Gulf of Dohlar will become similarly neutral, with the Charisians, Harchongese and Dohlarans prohibited from maintaining any naval presence in their waters (with their independent governments allowed to maintain limited forces against piracy). Again, I doubt Green Tree Island is big enough to contain all 2-3 million of the MH's soldiers, much less their families, in an early industrial era (no way will they become as populated as say Cuba or Haiti are today).

But at the same time, Harchong will still need their soldiers back, at least as an economic force. That is unless the feudal lords simply let the crops wither in the fields and the mines abandoned. In the end, they may just have to risk allowing them to return, perhaps with some "reward" for their services in the Jihad (like freedom and being allowed to hold on to their personal rifles) that comes with a lot of strings attached (which are all written into the contracts they signed - and which most cannot read). The senior officers and some of the lower ranking officers will be forced to remain in exile, which is how you hamper organization for a rebellion. So even if a bunch of veterans come home with their weapons and with revolutionary notions, they amount of damage and disruption they can cause would be limited. The Church in Harchong can be counted upon to stifle any news of a rebellion in a given village, thus containing any spark of revolution. Of course, we can be certain that the inner circle might be able to do something about that.


Harchong has approximately 200 million residents. Not sure how many reside in the South. Let's use 40% for arguments sake. That leaves 120 million people in the North. Even if 100% of the MH came from the North (they didn't), that's less than 3% of the population. More likely the north lost less than 1%. One suspects they would have used their influence to defer their obligations of giving up their workers to the jihad. The South would have carried most of the weight. If this is true, it strikes me that the South would find it easier to absorb the smaller Northern Harchong MH contingent.

I also recall that RFC posted somewhere that there were 2-3(?) million people residing on the dispersed Islands of the Gulf of Dohlar and Sea of Harchong. Green tree Island is the largest of those. I believe that Green tree Island is sufficiently large to accommodate 2-3 million MH dependents. Might have to build the housing and consecrate the land, but very doable.

As for island buffer zones, well not likely. I can definitely see Charis keeping some of those islands for their naval bases. Why would they givethem up? No one with any claim to them has a snowball's chance in Hell of denying Charisian possession of any such base they want. Setting the precedence of Charis owning the blue oceans and the islands in them may well be in the cards. No one else can defend against that claim after the jihad and the ICN will work like the dickens to improve their naval superiority.

I doubt Cayleb and Sharley will be piggish, but they will take prime island locations.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by thanatos   » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:08 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
thanatos wrote:That could be an interesting plot device, but I do think that in the context of the emerging cold war on Safehold, such a state would become one of several "buffer states" between the Charisian "heresy" and the Church, much like Austria was "neutral" during the Cold War. Perhaps all the islands throughout the Gulf of Dohlar will become similarly neutral, with the Charisians, Harchongese and Dohlarans prohibited from maintaining any naval presence in their waters (with their independent governments allowed to maintain limited forces against piracy). Again, I doubt Green Tree Island is big enough to contain all 2-3 million of the MH's soldiers, much less their families, in an early industrial era (no way will they become as populated as say Cuba or Haiti are today).

But at the same time, Harchong will still need their soldiers back, at least as an economic force. That is unless the feudal lords simply let the crops wither in the fields and the mines abandoned. In the end, they may just have to risk allowing them to return, perhaps with some "reward" for their services in the Jihad (like freedom and being allowed to hold on to their personal rifles) that comes with a lot of strings attached (which are all written into the contracts they signed - and which most cannot read). The senior officers and some of the lower ranking officers will be forced to remain in exile, which is how you hamper organization for a rebellion. So even if a bunch of veterans come home with their weapons and with revolutionary notions, they amount of damage and disruption they can cause would be limited. The Church in Harchong can be counted upon to stifle any news of a rebellion in a given village, thus containing any spark of revolution. Of course, we can be certain that the inner circle might be able to do something about that.


Harchong has approximately 200 million residents. Not sure how many reside in the South. Let's use 40% for arguments sake. That leaves 120 million people in the North. Even if 100% of the MH came from the North (they didn't), that's less than 3% of the population. More likely the north lost less than 1%. One suspects they would have used their influence to defer their obligations of giving up their workers to the jihad. The South would have carried most of the weight. If this is true, it strikes me that the South would find it easier to absorb the smaller Northern Harchong MH contingent.

I also recall that RFC posted somewhere that there were 2-3(?) million people residing on the dispersed Islands of the Gulf of Dohlar and Sea of Harchong. Green tree Island is the largest of those. I believe that Green tree Island is sufficiently large to accommodate 2-3 million MH dependents. Might have to build the housing and consecrate the land, but very doable.

As for island buffer zones, well not likely. I can definitely see Charis keeping some of those islands for their naval bases. Why would they givethem up? No one with any claim to them has a snowball's chance in Hell of denying Charisian possession of any such base they want. Setting the precedence of Charis owning the blue oceans and the islands in them may well be in the cards. No one else can defend against that claim after the jihad and the ICN will work like the dickens to improve their naval superiority.

I doubt Cayleb and Sharley will be piggish, but they will take prime island locations.


While there may be 2-3 million people in the dispersed islands in the area, there is only so much room on each individual island, and only so much farmland to feed them with. NTM building materials for the apartment buildings you'd need to construct (and not that many floors as they haven't reached that level of technology just yet). Again, look at places like Hawaii today with a total population of less than 1.5 million or places like Cuba that back in 1841 had only then topped 1 million. And again there is the question of who would pay, not just to relocate them (and presumably, their families) but also their housing and the cost of feeding 2-3 million, as well as medical care (many are likely to be amputees or suffer from PTSD). I'm pretty sure that such sparsely populated islands will not be able to cover all of that.

And again, I seriously doubt Charis or Siddarmark will simply foot the bill just to be nice or gain goodwill, especially if they cannot guarantee that the EOC would earn any goodwill. It is entirely possible that the very people whose goodwill they are trying to buy will resent such a move or think that they are entitled to this as compensation from Charis for starting the Jihad in the first place. And if Charis attaches any strings, that resentment might rise to the point in which they refuse to accept such a bribe, with many digging in their heels where their faith is concerned.

You are right that Charis would insist on naval bases wherever they want in the Gulf of Dohlar and Dohlar will have to accept their presence. But if all those islands are going to be filled with Harchongese ex-soldiers, they may have to decide upon demilitarization as a compromise. Or they can simply let the Church deal with the problem.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:14 am

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thanatos wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Harchong has approximately 200 million residents. Not sure how many reside in the South. Let's use 40% for arguments sake. That leaves 120 million people in the North. Even if 100% of the MH came from the North (they didn't), that's less than 3% of the population. More likely the north lost less than 1%. One suspects they would have used their influence to defer their obligations of giving up their workers to the jihad. The South would have carried most of the weight. If this is true, it strikes me that the South would find it easier to absorb the smaller Northern Harchong MH contingent.

I also recall that RFC posted somewhere that there were 2-3(?) million people residing on the dispersed Islands of the Gulf of Dohlar and Sea of Harchong. Green tree Island is the largest of those. I believe that Green tree Island is sufficiently large to accommodate 2-3 million MH dependents. Might have to build the housing and consecrate the land, but very doable.

As for island buffer zones, well not likely. I can definitely see Charis keeping some of those islands for their naval bases. Why would they givethem up? No one with any claim to them has a snowball's chance in Hell of denying Charisian possession of any such base they want. Setting the precedence of Charis owning the blue oceans and the islands in them may well be in the cards. No one else can defend against that claim after the jihad and the ICN will work like the dickens to improve their naval superiority.

I doubt Cayleb and Sharley will be piggish, but they will take prime island locations.


While there may be 2-3 million people in the dispersed islands in the area, there is only so much room on each individual island, and only so much farmland to feed them with. NTM building materials for the apartment buildings you'd need to construct (and not that many floors as they haven't reached that level of technology just yet). Again, look at places like Hawaii today with a total population of less than 1.5 million or places like Cuba that back in 1841 had only then topped 1 million. And again there is the question of who would pay, not just to relocate them (and presumably, their families) but also their housing and the cost of feeding 2-3 million, as well as medical care (many are likely to be amputees or suffer from PTSD). I'm pretty sure that such sparsely populated islands will not be able to cover all of that.

And again, I seriously doubt Charis or Siddarmark will simply foot the bill just to be nice or gain goodwill, especially if they cannot guarantee that the EOC would earn any goodwill. It is entirely possible that the very people whose goodwill they are trying to buy will resent such a move or think that they are entitled to this as compensation from Charis for starting the Jihad in the first place. And if Charis attaches any strings, that resentment might rise to the point in which they refuse to accept such a bribe, with many digging in their heels where their faith is concerned.

You are right that Charis would insist on naval bases wherever they want in the Gulf of Dohlar and Dohlar will have to accept their presence. But if all those islands are going to be filled with Harchongese ex-soldiers, they may have to decide upon demilitarization as a compromise. Or they can simply let the Church deal with the problem.


Let's review just how many people we are talking about. There are 2 million troopers of the Might Host. Let's assume 800k come from North Harchnong as the aristos are better at evading the "draft" of their serfs. Let's further assume that the deaft of serfs from up north primarily drew men without nuclear families of their own. Say 25% of that number have wives and children which total 3 dependents per family. That adds only 600k more people from the North to move south for a total of 1.4 million people. The remainder of the MH are already from the South and don't have to be relocated.

All we are talking about is the displacement of 1.6 million people. The South harchong manufactories will have need of most of those people. Those more suited to farming can farm or resettle in Green Tree. For those that are most suited to the military, I am certain there will be a use for them down South too. I don't see a problem. Even if the mix of North harchong to South Harchong residents is different, it won't be different enough to increase the total number of folks needing to move south by about 400k or so. That's still only 2 million people from a population of 100 million-ish down south.

Whether Charis pays to move them south or simply provides the transport to do so is less important than moveing them will mean Nimue's long term goals are being achieved. More people are being exposed to technological development. More people are seeing their living standards improve because of technology. More people have liesure to engage in activities beyond hand to mouth subsistance. In short more people share the improved living standards that will enable them to seek a more Liberal form of government. Liberal in the classical sense of Earth's Enlightenment espoused by the likes of Locke, Mill and Rousseau.

Any movement of people away from the repressive societies like North Harchong and Desnair improves the chances of Merlin's long term goals being achieved. The more movement of people into technologically innovative societies, to societies that foster improved living standards will strengthen those societies. So the tactics are simple.
1) Encourage as much of the MH to move south and encourage as much chaos in Desnair as possible. Facilitate the relocation of any refugees to tech friendly nations.
2) Discourage serfdom and slavery in those societies wanting Charisian help
3) Actively move against those societies that accept serfdom and slavery. Not necessarily militarily, but not avoiding such force if necessary.
4) Use the CoGA's moral requirements to be good shepherds to Safeholdians to support the abolition of slavery and serfdom.
5) Offer help to any nation that wants to embrace technology and innovation.
6) Use the economic and military competition stemming from any technological assistance to move everyone forward until the Reveal.

These tactics are pretty straight forward and rely on making the economic value of human labor and enterprise as obvious as the sun rising in the morning.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by thanatos   » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:13 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
Let's review just how many people we are talking about. There are 2 million troopers of the Might Host. Let's assume 800k come from North Harchnong as the aristos are better at evading the "draft" of their serfs. Let's further assume that the draft of serfs from up north primarily drew men without nuclear families of their own. Say 25% of that number have wives and children which total 3 dependents per family. That adds only 600k more people from the North to move south for a total of 1.4 million people. The remainder of the MH are already from the South and don't have to be relocated.

All we are talking about is the displacement of 1.6 million people. The South harchong manufactories will have need of most of those people. Those more suited to farming can farm or resettle in Green Tree. For those that are most suited to the military, I am certain there will be a use for them down South too. I don't see a problem. Even if the mix of North harchong to South Harchong residents is different, it won't be different enough to increase the total number of folks needing to move south by about 400k or so. That's still only 2 million people from a population of 100 million-ish down south.

Whether Charis pays to move them south or simply provides the transport to do so is less important than moveing them will mean Nimue's long term goals are being achieved. More people are being exposed to technological development. More people are seeing their living standards improve because of technology. More people have liesure to engage in activities beyond hand to mouth subsistance. In short more people share the improved living standards that will enable them to seek a more Liberal form of government. Liberal in the classical sense of Earth's Enlightenment espoused by the likes of Locke, Mill and Rousseau.

Any movement of people away from the repressive societies like North Harchong and Desnair improves the chances of Merlin's long term goals being achieved. The more movement of people into technologically innovative societies, to societies that foster improved living standards will strengthen those societies. So the tactics are simple.
1) Encourage as much of the MH to move south and encourage as much chaos in Desnair as possible. Facilitate the relocation of any refugees to tech friendly nations.
2) Discourage serfdom and slavery in those societies wanting Charisian help
3) Actively move against those societies that accept serfdom and slavery. Not necessarily militarily, but not avoiding such force if necessary.
4) Use the CoGA's moral requirements to be good shepherds to Safeholdians to support the abolition of slavery and serfdom.
5) Offer help to any nation that wants to embrace technology and innovation.
6) Use the economic and military competition stemming from any technological assistance to move everyone forward until the Reveal.

These tactics are pretty straight forward and rely on making the economic value of human labor and enterprise as obvious as the sun rising in the morning.


Actually, I'm pretty sure that most of the MH came from the Northern rather than Southern Harchong, as the general mindset in the North was always to throw worthless serfs at the problem in large enough numbers to allow the gallant nobles on their horses to charge through the breach and win the battle (Desnair had a similar mindset). It is for this reason that they simply pocketed the money the Church invested in their manufactories for the purpose of arming and equipping their troops properly, rather than use it as intended. They simply believed that when the call came, they could simply draft serfs, hand them weapons without properly training them in their use and send them against the heretics. The only ones that managed to weasel out of the draft were the wealthy, the nobility, the clergy and those connected/related to them.

As such, I would guess that while most impressed serfs were young males in their late teens and early 20s. However, remember that the average age of marriage is relatively low in low tech societies, despite the cultural and religious differences. So its safe to assume that many more of the impressed serfs are married with children (though most are only likely to have 1-2 children). That is still likely to create quite hole in the Harchongese economy, primitive though it might be. And if you send restive troops down South, that restiveness might lead to the secession of South Harchong. That's also something the Northern aristocrats will have to consider.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by n7axw   » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:20 pm

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thanatos wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Let's review just how many people we are talking about. There are 2 million troopers of the Might Host. Let's assume 800k come from North Harchnong as the aristos are better at evading the "draft" of their serfs. Let's further assume that the draft of serfs from up north primarily drew men without nuclear families of their own. Say 25% of that number have wives and children which total 3 dependents per family. That adds only 600k more people from the North to move south for a total of 1.4 million people. The remainder of the MH are already from the South and don't have to be relocated.

All we are talking about is the displacement of 1.6 million people. The South harchong manufactories will have need of most of those people. Those more suited to farming can farm or resettle in Green Tree. For those that are most suited to the military, I am certain there will be a use for them down South too. I don't see a problem. Even if the mix of North harchong to South Harchong residents is different, it won't be different enough to increase the total number of folks needing to move south by about 400k or so. That's still only 2 million people from a population of 100 million-ish down south.

Whether Charis pays to move them south or simply provides the transport to do so is less important than moveing them will mean Nimue's long term goals are being achieved. More people are being exposed to technological development. More people are seeing their living standards improve because of technology. More people have liesure to engage in activities beyond hand to mouth subsistance. In short more people share the improved living standards that will enable them to seek a more Liberal form of government. Liberal in the classical sense of Earth's Enlightenment espoused by the likes of Locke, Mill and Rousseau.

Any movement of people away from the repressive societies like North Harchong and Desnair improves the chances of Merlin's long term goals being achieved. The more movement of people into technologically innovative societies, to societies that foster improved living standards will strengthen those societies. So the tactics are simple.
1) Encourage as much of the MH to move south and encourage as much chaos in Desnair as possible. Facilitate the relocation of any refugees to tech friendly nations.
2) Discourage serfdom and slavery in those societies wanting Charisian help
3) Actively move against those societies that accept serfdom and slavery. Not necessarily militarily, but not avoiding such force if necessary.
4) Use the CoGA's moral requirements to be good shepherds to Safeholdians to support the abolition of slavery and serfdom.
5) Offer help to any nation that wants to embrace technology and innovation.
6) Use the economic and military competition stemming from any technological assistance to move everyone forward until the Reveal.

These tactics are pretty straight forward and rely on making the economic value of human labor and enterprise as obvious as the sun rising in the morning.


Actually, I'm pretty sure that most of the MH came from the Northern rather than Southern Harchong, as the general mindset in the North was always to throw worthless serfs at the problem in large enough numbers to allow the gallant nobles on their horses to charge through the breach and win the battle (Desnair had a similar mindset). It is for this reason that they simply pocketed the money the Church invested in their manufactories for the purpose of arming and equipping their troops properly, rather than use it as intended. They simply believed that when the call came, they could simply draft serfs, hand them weapons without properly training them in their use and send them against the heretics. The only ones that managed to weasel out of the draft were the wealthy, the nobility, the clergy and those connected/related to them.

As such, I would guess that while most impressed serfs were young males in their late teens and early 20s. However, remember that the average age of marriage is relatively low in low tech societies, despite the cultural and religious differences. So its safe to assume that many more of the impressed serfs are married with children (though most are only likely to have 1-2 children). That is still likely to create quite hole in the Harchongese economy, primitive though it might be. And if you send restive troops down South, that restiveness might lead to the secession of South Harchong. That's also something the Northern aristocrats will have to consider.


I concur with Thanatos' analysis on this one with only one possible caveat... I suspect that the hole in the economy is already starting to fill. The first wave of the MH has already been gone almost two years.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by thanatos   » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:49 pm

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n7axw wrote:
thanatos wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty sure that most of the MH came from the Northern rather than Southern Harchong, as the general mindset in the North was always to throw worthless serfs at the problem in large enough numbers to allow the gallant nobles on their horses to charge through the breach and win the battle (Desnair had a similar mindset). It is for this reason that they simply pocketed the money the Church invested in their manufactories for the purpose of arming and equipping their troops properly, rather than use it as intended. They simply believed that when the call came, they could simply draft serfs, hand them weapons without properly training them in their use and send them against the heretics. The only ones that managed to weasel out of the draft were the wealthy, the nobility, the clergy and those connected/related to them.

As such, I would guess that while most impressed serfs were young males in their late teens and early 20s. However, remember that the average age of marriage is relatively low in low tech societies, despite the cultural and religious differences. So its safe to assume that many more of the impressed serfs are married with children (though most are only likely to have 1-2 children). That is still likely to create quite hole in the Harchongese economy, primitive though it might be. And if you send restive troops down South, that restiveness might lead to the secession of South Harchong. That's also something the Northern aristocrats will have to consider.


I concur with Thanatos' analysis on this one with only one possible caveat... I suspect that the hole in the economy is already starting to fill. The first wave of the MH has already been gone almost two years.

Don

-


That assumes that they either had a labor surplus (in which case they were getting rid of "excess population" that might get restive) or else that they allowed those who weren't drafted to fill in the hole in the economy. Who might those be I wonder? In Charis, much like in the UK and US during WWII, that hole in the economy was filled by women, who worked the farms and in the factories while their fathers and husbands were out fighting the war. It caused a great deal of social upheaval over the following 20 years, as the daughters of those women came of age and decided not to follow their mothers' footsteps in becoming demurred housewives, even after they became self-sufficient women. That and the many cases of divorced that followed in the period (more than in the previous generation) as the men returning from war were changed or that the separation damaged their marriages.

Given the Harchongese aversion to any societal disruptions and anything that undermines the "proper" order of the world (i.e. nobility on top, commons in the bottom), and given how much they are trying to avoid such disruption by preventing the return of the MH, how likely is it that they would allow large numbers of women to plow the fields, work the mines or work in factories, in such unladylike occupations, especially if they hear that Charis was doing that during the Jihad? I think that they will be faced with yet another unpalatable choice here. Either risk societal disruption with the MH, societal disruption in allowing women to take up the missing spots or further economic damage. As they said in that Star Trek Discovery episode last year, "choose your pain".
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by n7axw   » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:13 am

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The point is that the MH has already been gone for at least one, possibly two growing seasons. They had to deal with it somehow and they don't want the MH back. So they must figure that what solutions they are already implementing are working.

As for concerns about women, they regard their serfs as subhuman. Women can be put under the taskmaster's lash as easily as men, although I would imagine you'd soon run out of serfs doing that. The herd has to reproduce somehow.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: The way Duchairn’s salvaging the Church...
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:56 pm

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North Harchong doesn't want the MH back. South Harchong won't want them UNLESS there enough prospective mates for them OR they have a channel to direct their aggression. I say this because men under 30 are primed to compete for mates. The frustration of being unable to find mates will come out somehow, so it is best to relocate them with families or relocate them in an area that will benefit from their heightened aggression.

That the North found a way to offset the loss of labor means they are unlikely to want further disruption by sending more people down South. South Harchong will only want to incorporate enough men into the civilian labor force to balance out the number of available women. Any remainder would be a disruptive force in the civilian population. As part of a military force directed at securing the Desnairian mines for Harchong, the MH has immense value for the South.
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