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Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai

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Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by kel   » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:08 pm

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At the end of the last book, I was left wondering what would happen to the Sword Rakurai?

They were trained as undercover operatives would this mean that they would dive deep into their undercover identities or form something like the Helm Cleaver or fall back to Harchong to reform?

The reason I ask is that they represent a potential future threat to the Reformist and invitations and the nations they view as betraying the church and the now dead grand inquisitor.
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:58 am

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IMO it is very likely that Rayno knew their "cover identities" and had that information in his files.

His replacement, Archbishop Ignaz Aimaiyr, would have found that info and reported it to Grand Vicar Rhobair.

It is very likely that most were either recalled to Zion or reported to Siddarmark/Charin counter-intelligence.

It is possible that a few might have not obeyed and haven't been captured but I doubt that they'd remain for long in Siddarmark or Charin.

Their best course of action would be to head to Harchong to lead their aid to the anti-Reform movement there.

One thing to remember is that they worked as individuals not as teams. None of them knew the other Sword Rakurai operating in their "field of interest". How could they "organize" when none of them knows about the others? :twisted:


kel wrote:At the end of the last book, I was left wondering what would happen to the Sword Rakurai?

They were trained as undercover operatives would this mean that they would dive deep into their undercover identities or form something like the Helm Cleaver or fall back to Harchong to reform?

The reason I ask is that they represent a potential future threat to the Reformist and invitations and the nations they view as betraying the church and the now dead grand inquisitor.
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Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by WeberFan   » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:54 am

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I also think that Rayno knew their identities and had files on them. But beyond that, I think there are just too many loose ends. We don't know how many there were, we don't know where they were sent. We DO know that there's at least one of them floating around out there (the one who placed the IED at Hektor's wedding and who was never caught). There could be lots more out there, there could be just the one.

But I also imagine that if Duchairn learned about them, he would be appalled at the knowledge. I think he would do everything in his power to get them "off the street" as soon as possible. Whether this would take the form of some clandestine removal effected by Church spies or telling Charisian intelligence about them I couldn't say. But I'm confident that he WOULD have done something - especially given his spiritual renewal.
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:21 am

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WeberFan wrote:I also think that Rayno knew their identities and had files on them. But beyond that, I think there are just too many loose ends. We don't know how many there were, we don't know where they were sent. We DO know that there's at least one of them floating around out there (the one who placed the IED at Hektor's wedding and who was never caught). There could be lots more out there, there could be just the one.

But I also imagine that if Duchairn learned about them, he would be appalled at the knowledge. I think he would do everything in his power to get them "off the street" as soon as possible. Whether this would take the form of some clandestine removal effected by Church spies or telling Charisian intelligence about them I couldn't say. But I'm confident that he WOULD have done something - especially given his spiritual renewal.

Taking them off the street clandestinely is exactly what Duchairne's would not do. The last thing he needs is for the Church to find out he is operating in "Clyntahn" mode, and not doing things transparently.
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by Keith_w   » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:51 am

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WeberFan wrote:I also think that Rayno knew their identities and had files on them. But beyond that, I think there are just too many loose ends. We don't know how many there were, we don't know where they were sent. We DO know that there's at least one of them floating around out there (the one who placed the IED at Hektor's wedding and who was never caught). There could be lots more out there, there could be just the one.

But I also imagine that if Duchairn learned about them, he would be appalled at the knowledge. I think he would do everything in his power to get them "off the street" as soon as possible. Whether this would take the form of some clandestine removal effected by Church spies or telling Charisian intelligence about them I couldn't say. But I'm confident that he WOULD have done something - especially given his spiritual renewal.


I am fairly certain that the person who IED'd the wedding was the person who triggered the bomb and thus is no longer a problem.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:43 am

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Keith_w wrote:
WeberFan wrote:I also think that Rayno knew their identities and had files on them. But beyond that, I think there are just too many loose ends. We don't know how many there were, we don't know where they were sent. We DO know that there's at least one of them floating around out there (the one who placed the IED at Hektor's wedding and who was never caught). There could be lots more out there, there could be just the one.

But I also imagine that if Duchairn learned about them, he would be appalled at the knowledge. I think he would do everything in his power to get them "off the street" as soon as possible. Whether this would take the form of some clandestine removal effected by Church spies or telling Charisian intelligence about them I couldn't say. But I'm confident that he WOULD have done something - especially given his spiritual renewal.


I am fairly certain that the person who IED'd the wedding was the person who triggered the bomb and thus is no longer a problem.

But there was also the person who delivered the Manifesto, and to the best of my knowledge, he was never caught
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by WeberFan   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:25 am

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Keith_w wrote:
WeberFan wrote:I also think that Rayno knew their identities and had files on them. But beyond that, I think there are just too many loose ends. We don't know how many there were, we don't know where they were sent. We DO know that there's at least one of them floating around out there (the one who placed the IED at Hektor's wedding and who was never caught). There could be lots more out there, there could be just the one.

But I also imagine that if Duchairn learned about them, he would be appalled at the knowledge. I think he would do everything in his power to get them "off the street" as soon as possible. Whether this would take the form of some clandestine removal effected by Church spies or telling Charisian intelligence about them I couldn't say. But I'm confident that he WOULD have done something - especially given his spiritual renewal.


I am fairly certain that the person who IED'd the wedding was the person who triggered the bomb and thus is no longer a problem.

Your post led to a question for me, KeithW. I had to go back to the textev to confirm for myself.

LAMA, October, Year of God 896, .XXII. Nimue's Cave, The Mountains of Light, The Temple Lands

You say the person who IED'd the wedding is no longer a problem. I'm not so sure. It's likely, but we can't say that with certainty from the textev. In their report, Nahrmahn and Owl state that the guy in the wheelchari was accompanied by a woman dressed in the uniform of a Pasqualate lay sister. But they don't say if she was still there when the bomb detonated. Seems likely that she was, but it could have been on some sort of timer (although those don't appear in the textev until later books). Fuses, yes. Discrete detonation timers no.

As I say, it's more than likely that she detonated the IED and (thus) killed herself as well. But we don't know for sure...
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:20 am

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WeberFan wrote:
Keith_w wrote:I am fairly certain that the person who IED'd the wedding was the person who triggered the bomb and thus is no longer a problem.

Your post led to a question for me, KeithW. I had to go back to the textev to confirm for myself.

LAMA, October, Year of God 896, .XXII. Nimue's Cave, The Mountains of Light, The Temple Lands

You say the person who IED'd the wedding is no longer a problem. I'm not so sure. It's likely, but we can't say that with certainty from the textev. In their report, Nahrmahn and Owl state that the guy in the wheelchari was accompanied by a woman dressed in the uniform of a Pasqualate lay sister. But they don't say if she was still there when the bomb detonated. Seems likely that she was, but it could have been on some sort of timer (although those don't appear in the textev until later books). Fuses, yes. Discrete detonation timers no.

As I say, it's more than likely that she detonated the IED and (thus) killed herself as well. But we don't know for sure...


You are giving me more credit for certainty than my post deserves. It is entirely possible that s/he lit the fuse and escaped and we do not know with certainty that she was in fact a she. "She" may have been a "he" in disguise.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by n7axw   » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:21 pm

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I agree that there is an element of uncertainty in the text. But if forced to bet, my money would be on her suiciding in the act. She was hemmed in by the crowd. How would she have gotten away? As for the notion of her being a guy and disguising her gender, yeah, that could have happened. But I don't see a motive, except if an escape was planned, it could have made it easier to get away.

So I agree that neither of these questions can be definitively answered by textev. But count me skeptical that the apparently obvious understanding of what happened here isn't the right one.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Question Regarding the Sword Rakurai
Post by Frankjg   » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:58 pm

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Yes what did happen to them. Did they return home, stay in place and form a new organization or quit and blend in to society where they were when the war ended.
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