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Tech Levels at the start of next series

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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:30 pm

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Since guided missiles and torpedos are out, that leaves extending the ranges of naval artillery.

I foresee longer caliber naval rifles using 3 based propellants on ships with mechanical fire control guided by aero aughts in balloons. Longer guns with slower burning propellants extends the range of the gun to take advantage of the improved visibility afforded by balloons. That argues for larger ships to carry the larger guns. Hello Montana.

Cruisers will likely be bigger as well. Since electricity is out, turbines to power propellers are inefficient. Longer, larger cruisers with narrower beams but perfect enough to carry triple expansion engines and the equipment for balloons seems necessary. Cruiser guns will also be longer and fire heavier shells per given bore size.

I wonder of DDs will be powered by propellers or some variant of pumps? I am thinking something like a jet ski. The pumps would benefit from steam turbines' higher rpms and smaller size. Those sorts of systems will also be more likely to break down. Perhaps DDs will be powered by diesels.
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by Michae   » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:59 am

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I still wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising soul in Charis manages to figure out how to mount rockets of some kind of a ship of some kind,maybe with some kind of rotating launcher for rapidly firing the things,as a ship as fast as one of our destroyers which can cruise at around 20 knots and fire off a rapid stream of rockets at anything following then would be very irritating for the other side,among other things.
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:16 pm

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Michae wrote:I still wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising soul in Charis manages to figure out how to mount rockets of some kind of a ship of some kind,maybe with some kind of rotating launcher for rapidly firing the things,as a ship as fast as one of our destroyers which can cruise at around 20 knots and fire off a rapid stream of rockets at anything following then would be very irritating for the other side,among other things.


Unless those rockets are guided, the ship wouldn't have enough for more than 1 salvo of a massed launch, perhaps not even enough for that. Better to have torpedoes that hit below the armor. Carry enough for multiple runs and the ship is more than a short endurance BC(P) from the Honorverse. At least the BC(P)s had guided missiles to make the most of their short endurance. Unguided rocket ships? Not so much.
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:32 pm

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I really think pushing the size limits to BBs and speed limits to DDs are going to be key technological thresholds the ICN will try to push. Big battleships will be needed to carry larger naval rifles capable of greater range made possible by balloons. Once the torpedo is developed, faster DDs will offer a serious advantage in deploying torpedos.

The USN 16"/50s firing the super heavy shells had a range of 20 miles. The Yamatos 18 inch guns reached 24 miles. Beefing up the USN 16s may let them reach greater ranges. As it stands the guns are 133 tons each, reinforcing them, adding more barrel length and using slower burning propellant may add more range. Not sure rocket assist will work, there is always that option.

In any case having that heavy of a gun firing at ranges no other gun can reach will keep opponents trying to innovate such an advantage away. Having 6" rocket assist shells for land based angle guns that can reach 24 miles will do the same thing. Both extensions in range require balloons.
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by Michae   » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:30 am

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I have another proposal. You remember that it was planned to make man-portable rocket packs for infantry but they couldn't figure out how to deal with the backblast,so they upscaled them instead,and made field-piece versions. Just imagine that by the time of the next war they did have the kinks worked out. I'd imagine man-portable HE rocket packs would be quite the advantage,at least for a while,until the opposing side managed to duplicate them
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:38 pm

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Man portable rockets need to have a delay before the propellant fires. That means they need a secondary means to launch the rockets beyond the range where the exhaust harms the operators. That delay/transition adds quite a few variables for aiming an individual rocket. Modern rockets overcome this with electronic guidance. That's not available on Safehold.

I do see rocket mounts on armored personnel carriers. Rockets would be less massive that heavy guns but still has a chance to taking out other armored vehicles.
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by Erls   » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:27 pm

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Does anyone think Charis could come up with a non-electrical version of the Tank? Basically, a non-electrically started petroleum based vehicle. If they can find a way to manually start the ignition, is this a possibility?
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:47 pm

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Doble developed both steam powered cars and two prototype steam powered tanks. The Stanley company also developed a steam tank. The Doble steam engine design was quite compact and efficient. So a steam tank for Safehold is simple enough.

Diesel engines don't require electrical ignition. I believe David mentioned that IC engines might be lighter, but required heavier transmissions and steam engines tend to be heavier but had lighter direct drive systems. I think that diesels can be accepted under the attestation that allowed firearms. The only thing being added is a piston rod that caught and repositioned the piston/bullet/round being pushed by the propellant in the cylinder/barrel.

The interesting thing to speculate on is jets and pulse jets. Can a non-electric ignition system be developed for those systems? I truly don't know.
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:53 pm

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I wonder what the prospects of implementing water jets and axial impellers are before the Return?

I can see steam powered turbines powering multiple water jets on DDs. Those suckers will be fast and more nimble than Chinese acrobats. Perfect for torpedo runs. Those water jets can be driven by either pneumatics or direct shafts.

I can see the BBs using axial impellers. Unless these are retractable, servicing them will be a pain. I suppose the housing can ba large enough to allow them to be serviced without divers with air tanks.

Odds are that the ICN will use water jets for the most part. DDs to dash in and dance their way around manually aimed guns. BBs to out maneuver balloon aimed long range shells. If BBs can accurately fire and juke at ranges of 20 miles more quickly than the other side can adjust for, the opponent's accuracy drops to relying on sheer luck to manufacture its. Very good odds. Match that to mechanical fire control computers that can quickly generate firing solutions and the ICN can remain well within their opponent's decision cycle.
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Re: Tech Levels at the start of next series
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:56 pm

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PeterZ wrote:I can see steam powered turbines powering multiple water jets on DDs. Those suckers will be fast and more nimble than Chinese acrobats. Perfect for torpedo runs. Those water jets can be driven by either pneumatics or direct shafts.

I am reminded of the warships from the Ring of Fire series that used water pumps for motive power.
The Admiral in charge of them mentally considered them to be the largest jetskis ever built.
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