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Draining Clyntahn's mind

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Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by jackburtonjr   » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:39 pm

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It seems to me that the inner circle missed a real opportunity between the time that Clyntahn was captured and his execution. They are rightfully concerned about the near future and what is going to be coming out of the Zion vaults in a few years. They have in hand the one person who knows more secrets about Zion than any other person.

Yet, there is no effort to find out what he knows that I can see. Why not slap the same type of "mind duplicator" on him that was used on Prince Nahrmahn and drain his mind of everything he knows. Let Owl and Nahrmahn sort it out in virtual reality. It wouldn't hurt him, and he really wouldn't even have to know about it.

Alternately, they could just come up with some kind of truth juice and do it the old fashioned way by asking one question after another.

In my humble opinion they wasted a tremendously helpful opportunity by not finding out just what secrets this guy had been privy to.
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by Duckk   » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:44 pm

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The neural receptors used to duplicate Nahrman was an ad-hoc terminal procedure; it would have left him brain dead regardless of his other injuries. There's no way to do that to Clyntahn while still leaving him alive for his execution.
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by jackburtonjr   » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:25 pm

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Duckk wrote:The neural receptors used to duplicate Nahrman was an ad-hoc terminal procedure; it would have left him brain dead regardless of his other injuries. There's no way to do that to Clyntahn while still leaving him alive for his execution.


Still leaves the option of ethanol, scopolamine, 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate, midazolam, flunitrazepam, or sodium thiopental and lots of pointed questions.
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:10 am

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jackburtonjr wrote:
Duckk wrote:The neural receptors used to duplicate Nahrman was an ad-hoc terminal procedure; it would have left him brain dead regardless of his other injuries. There's no way to do that to Clyntahn while still leaving him alive for his execution.


Still leaves the option of ethanol, scopolamine, 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate, midazolam, flunitrazepam, or sodium thiopental and lots of pointed questions.

Actually, if the demonstration arranged for Clyntahn had been arranged weeks earlier, he could have been interrogated and been giving answers by telling him that as long as he was talking, his execution would be deferred -- and his actions might help when he finally faced God.
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by dobriennm   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:48 pm

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jackburtonjr wrote:It seems to me that the inner circle missed a real opportunity between the time that Clyntahn was captured and his execution. They are rightfully concerned about the near future and what is going to be coming out of the Zion vaults in a few years. They have in hand the one person who knows more secrets about Zion than any other person.

Yet, there is no effort to find out what he knows that I can see. Why not slap the same type of "mind duplicator" on him that was used on Prince Nahrmahn and drain his mind of everything he knows. Let Owl and Nahrmahn sort it out in virtual reality. It wouldn't hurt him, and he really wouldn't even have to know about it.

Alternately, they could just come up with some kind of truth juice and do it the old fashioned way by asking one question after another.

In my humble opinion they wasted a tremendously helpful opportunity by not finding out just what secrets this guy had been privy to.


In a previous topic SPOILER- Thank you so very much RFC for AtSoT!-SPOILER I lamented the loss of potential intell on
THE THING UNDER THE TEMPLE
by not interrogating Clyntahn after he broke while being shown the "file footage" by Merlin and Nimue.

The discussion got bogged down on whether or not there were electronic files/Video recordings accessible to the Inquisition senior leadership (there are, Clyntahn recognized Langhorne and his voice), so the important point you brought up was not really discussed.

Being able to find additional information about a possible return of the Archangels would be priceless. Maybe Clyntahn may not have known anything about how to trigger it or any details, but you can't know unless you asked him.

Overall, a missed opportunity.
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by phillies   » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:46 am

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Perhaps the author omitted the details, and Clinton was asked.


dobriennm wrote:
jackburtonjr wrote:It seems to me that the inner circle missed a real opportunity between the time that Clyntahn was captured and his execution. They are rightfully concerned about the near future and what is going to be coming out of the Zion vaults in a few years. They have in hand the one person who knows more secrets about Zion than any other person.

Yet, there is no effort to find out what he knows that I can see. Why not slap the same type of "mind duplicator" on him that was used on Prince Nahrmahn and drain his mind of everything he knows. Let Owl and Nahrmahn sort it out in virtual reality. It wouldn't hurt him, and he really wouldn't even have to know about it.

Alternately, they could just come up with some kind of truth juice and do it the old fashioned way by asking one question after another.

In my humble opinion they wasted a tremendously helpful opportunity by not finding out just what secrets this guy had been privy to.


In a previous topic SPOILER- Thank you so very much RFC for AtSoT!-SPOILER I lamented the loss of potential intell on
THE THING UNDER THE TEMPLE
by not interrogating Clyntahn after he broke while being shown the "file footage" by Merlin and Nimue.

The discussion got bogged down on whether or not there were electronic files/Video recordings accessible to the Inquisition senior leadership (there are, Clyntahn recognized Langhorne and his voice), so the important point you brought up was not really discussed.

Being able to find additional information about a possible return of the Archangels would be priceless. Maybe Clyntahn may not have known anything about how to trigger it or any details, but you can't know unless you asked him.

Overall, a missed opportunity.
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:39 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote:Actually, if the demonstration arranged for Clyntahn had been arranged weeks earlier, he could have been interrogated and been giving answers by telling him that as long as he was talking, his execution would be deferred -- and his actions might help when he finally faced God.


This wouldn't work. As soon as Clyntahn would came to his sences enough to understood what they want from him - he would immediately understood that he still have some value. And he would probably refuse to answer unless he would be spared.
------------------------
If power's on your shopping list
Then use the elbow and the fist,
Pummel 'em until they get the gist
Just make an example of
Representative sample of
And most of them will not be missed! (c)
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:40 am

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phillies wrote:Perhaps the author omitted the details, and Clinton was asked.


In his condition, it would make no sense. He wouldn't be able even to understood the questions accurately.
------------------------
If power's on your shopping list
Then use the elbow and the fist,
Pummel 'em until they get the gist
Just make an example of
Representative sample of
And most of them will not be missed! (c)
Top
Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by jackburtonjr   » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:10 pm

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Posts: 6
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dobriennm wrote:
jackburtonjr wrote:It seems to me that the inner circle missed a real opportunity between the time that Clyntahn was captured and his execution. They are rightfully concerned about the near future and what is going to be coming out of the Zion vaults in a few years. They have in hand the one person who knows more secrets about Zion than any other person.

Yet, there is no effort to find out what he knows that I can see. Why not slap the same type of "mind duplicator" on him that was used on Prince Nahrmahn and drain his mind of everything he knows. Let Owl and Nahrmahn sort it out in virtual reality. It wouldn't hurt him, and he really wouldn't even have to know about it.

Alternately, they could just come up with some kind of truth juice and do it the old fashioned way by asking one question after another.

In my humble opinion they wasted a tremendously helpful opportunity by not finding out just what secrets this guy had been privy to.


In a previous topic SPOILER- Thank you so very much RFC for AtSoT!-SPOILER I lamented the loss of potential intell on
THE THING UNDER THE TEMPLE
by not interrogating Clyntahn after he broke while being shown the "file footage" by Merlin and Nimue.

The discussion got bogged down on whether or not there were electronic files/Video recordings accessible to the Inquisition senior leadership (there are, Clyntahn recognized Langhorne and his voice), so the important point you brought up was not really discussed.

Being able to find additional information about a possible return of the Archangels would be priceless. Maybe Clyntahn may not have known anything about how to trigger it or any details, but you can't know unless you asked him.

Overall, a missed opportunity.


I looked back at the thread you referenced and you are right, it was a missed opportunity. It is akin to the allies capturing Heinrich Himmler in 1943 and putting him to death without questioning him once about Hitler's war plans and intentions. But... I understand that a reader can't get everything he wants in a book or else they'd all be 80,000 pages long.
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Re: Draining Clyntahn's mind
Post by jackburtonjr   » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:17 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
phillies wrote:Perhaps the author omitted the details, and Clinton was asked.


In his condition, it would make no sense. He wouldn't be able even to understood the questions accurately.


Advanced drugs, combined with such things as hypnosis, do not require or demand a willing, compliant subject. Add to that mix a high tech ability to discern truth from lies and it gives a the ability to gain info from anyone. This could have been done anytime during his captivity. Clyn need not even remember that he was questioned.

There is no physical or mental harm necessary, so the moral or ethical problems of torture do not enter into the picture.
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