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Crazy Theory [Spoilers For Whole Series]

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Crazy Theory [Spoilers For Whole Series]
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:10 am

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thanatos wrote:
schoeffelk wrote:Interesting thoughts. Schuler was changing as the War with the Fallen went on. Cody may never have made it to the meeting with him, being detained by Chihiro. Chihiro not trusting Schuler's loyalty at that point began plotting against Schuler and his remaining allies among the Faithful.

Schuler realizing this, downloads his 'current' personality into the Key. Chihiro removes Schuler and his allies, then reinvents Schuler in the revised Book. Chihiro downloads his personality or 'modifies' Schuler's personality that was perviously stored.

The War of the Fallen could be refought via virtual personalities of Schuler 1 vs Schuler 2 or Schuler vs Chihiro.

Or it could have been the other way around. Schueler could have been the stern but fair character to begin with, but as the War Against the Fallen worsened for the "Archangels" (as noted in Cody's diary), he may have been willing to embrace one expedient after another in order to achieve victory. I also seriously doubt that Cody was the only Seijin who suffered from flashes of his old life (as per Nimue's and Merlin's comments during the discussion regarding the translated portions of the diary), which means some of the others might have been "erased" in their entirety. The only reason the memory of Cody persisted is because of his prominence during that war. But Schueler could have felt that Cody had become a liability and had him eliminated (again, in the name of expedience in time of war). Moreover, the diary indicates that Cody had a personal relationship with Schueler and was suspicious of Chihiro. Your newest wrinkle would require Chihiro to be himself suspicious of Cody ultimate reliability and intercept him as that particular moment, when he was ready to ask Schueler for reassurances (rather than at any moment before that in whatever previous meetings Cody had with them). Also, what possible utility could there be to placing a mortal "Seijin" mind in the memory module that wouldn't better be served by having the mind of an archangel in there instead?

Again, given the paranoia of Lannghorne, Chihiro and Schueler, as exemplified by the OBS and the platforms that protect it from examination and attack, I still firmly believe that Chihiro and Schueler would still need to take into consideration the possibility that missed some of the Fallen and any remaining technology. They would have to have some sort of fail safe for such an eventuality, which is why they made the Key. Yet I also think that Chihiro and Schueler were only thinking in terms of a threat that could emerge a few years or a few decades at most after their "departure in glory". Jeremiah Knowles comments that Pei Shan-wei's backup plans remained unknown to the "Archangels" after Pei Kau-yung blew up the original temple (probably because they lost a lot most of they records along with Langhorne and Bedard). Had they known, Knowles and his family would have been snapped up and either killed or reprogrammed. If they had no idea about the NEATs that Shan-wei used to reprogram them, they had no clue about Nimue Alban's PICA in the cave.

I believe Schoeffelk meant Schuler downloaded his own personality into the Key not Cody's. When he suspected Chihiro of killing or planning to kill Cody, he set up his plan B. His descendants would keep his personality safe until it was needed to retake the Temple and correct whatever threatened the CoGA of Schuler's vision. What that vision was at the time he copied his personality into the Key is open to speculation.
Re: Crazy Theory [Spoilers For Whole Series]
Post by n7axw   » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:31 pm

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The whole thing is a matter of speculation. But, presuming this particular line of thinking as the correct one, is it good or bad?

Even the more benevolent Schuler's line of thinking would have included the proscriptions. If he has the means to do so, such as access to the OBS, he could still surpress anything violating the proscriptions. Simply saying that the corruption of the Temple would have repulsed Schuler does not mean that he would have approved of Charis and its innovating.

In fact a Temple cleaned of corruption is a bigger obstacle to Nimue's schemes than a corrupt one.


When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Re: Crazy Theory [Spoilers For Whole Series]
Post by evilauthor   » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:57 am

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thanatos wrote:
Which may or may not be a contrivance of the Inner Circle as a way to undermine Schueler's position in the hearts of the faithful. Nor need it be an untruthful testament - The Inner Circle could put together what few recording they have of Schueler expressing himself all too bluntly.

But I still cannot believe that Schueler would take such an insane risk as to put the mind of someone like Cody Cortazar in that memory module. If he and the Church as a whole was willing not only to kill Cody but to erase the very memory of his existence (to the point of murdering everyone in the original Abbey of St. Kohdy with a Rakurai strike), how could he justify the risk of exposing the lie of the faith they created, even 1,000 years later?

Moreover, RFC has noted that the command crew suffered from a general sense of hopelessness and serious mental issues as a result of the endless and hopeless war against the Gbaba. They firmly believed that what they were doing was mankind's only hope of survival and that justified whatever action they took to uphold Langhorne's vision. So even if Schueler suffered from some sort attack of conscience over killing Cody, he might still look for a way to atone that did not hurt the overall plan (like say, charging his descendants to ensure that the Church remained free of corruption). And that ignores the fact that they would need to subdue Cody and then copy his neural pattern and store it (and only then kill him).

Honestly? There's so much cloak and dagger going on among the Command Crew that it wouldn't surprise me if Schueler had his own secret agenda. Which could be just about anything from making sure that Langhorne's plan stays on track to secretly undermining it. Or even implementing his own take on what Safeholdian culture should be like after he's sure the rest of Command Crew is dead and gone and won't interfere with his efforts.

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