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Question about the Battle of Darcos Sound in OAR.

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Re: Question about the Battle of Darcos Sound in OAR.
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:09 am

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WeberFan wrote:
Keith_w wrote:The defensive barges are probably where all their construction effort went. They built enough of them to cover the throat and probably needed all the new construction cannon to as well as any cannon from the reserves that Cayleb didn't take with him.

Good point, Keith_W, but I'm not convinced. IMHO there was lots of construction of barges going on, but that construction was by no means all, or even mostly where the money was going. I suspect that this was just one more of many programs that were taking place - all at the same time...

We already know (but didn't read about it until later) that the treasury was hemorrhaging (my word here but I think it's an appropriate one) Marks... Added to the spending by the Crown was all the "private" infrastructure / investment spending going on by Howsym and others.

Personally, I think the construction of the barges was important (yes) but no more important than the purchase of additional cannon for the fleet, construction of new galleons, outfitting of land forces (the Marines), research at the College, and a whole host of other things. One of many priorities, but not the crown jewel of them. In fact, I think the only area where there wasn't any spending going on was for galley construction!


I don't think it's just about the money, it's also about time and skill. I don't think there was enough time to construct more galleons as well as the barges, and there were definitely more issues with pouring cannon with brass they didn't yet have. It takes time to develop a skilled work force which they did not, at that time have much of.
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Re: Question about the Battle of Darcos Sound in OAR.
Post by n7axw   » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:56 am

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Hulls weren't the issue. They had unfinished hulls in building slips or they could have impressed merchant hulls. Remember that when they learned that war was imminent they refocused their efforts on the hulls closest to completion. So after the first 30 hulls were completed, they could have reprioritized back to the unfinished hulls. But they apparently decided it was more important to come up with barges for the throat.

Cannon don't seem to be the issue either. They did, after all, come up with the guns and gunners for the barges.

It seems to me that the explanation the is most likely is that at the time the decision was made, the war galleons were an unproven quality that nobody knew for sure how effective they would be. That being the case, Haarahld decided not to put any more eggs in that basket and came up with what was a plan for the throat instead.

Last paragraph is just guessing. But it does make sense. Another factor could have been time to work the gallons up was too short. At any rate guns, gunners and hulls seem to have been available.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Question about the Battle of Darcos Sound in OAR.
Post by ZVar   » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:15 pm

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My thought was it was always about shock and awe. If Clyntahn's fleet had already had skirmishes with even a squadron of galleons, they could have developed tactics to minimize their effectiveness. Something as simple as not meeting them in open water, but lure them to bays and straits and such where the rowed galley would be an effective weapon again.
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Re: Question about the Battle of Darcos Sound in OAR.
Post by n7axw   » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:40 pm

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ZVar wrote:My thought was it was always about shock and awe. If Clyntahn's fleet had already had skirmishes with even a squadron of galleons, they could have developed tactics to minimize their effectiveness. Something as simple as not meeting them in open water, but lure them to bays and straits and such where the rowed galley would be an effective weapon again.


It was interesting how long it took the church to really catch on to what actually happened off Armageddon Reef and Darcos Sound... They virtually completed a whole new galley fleet before a light bulb went off for Clyntahn as he realized that the church would need galleons of their own to counter Charis.

As for tactics, even with gallons, the church never really matched Charis. The closest the church came was with Thirsk's navy which made a good effort, but eventually couldn't counter the ICN's ironclads.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Question about the Battle of Darcos Sound in OAR.
Post by Randomiser   » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:30 am

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n7axw wrote:It was interesting how long it took the church to really catch on to what actually happened off Armageddon Reef and Darcos Sound... They virtually completed a whole new galley fleet before a light bulb went off for Clyntahn as he realized that the church would need galleons of their own to counter Charis.

Don

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I think it's just that the Church, including Clyntahn, really believed its own propaganda about innovation being dangerous and largely unnecessary at that stage of the war. Also they had hardly any experience in judging the practical effects of radically new techniques at that time, since they had been discouraging them for so long. So they were effectively hidebound by their own rules and practices of thought.
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Re: Question about the Battle of Darcos Sound in OAR.
Post by n7axw   » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:26 am

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Randomiser wrote:
n7axw wrote:It was interesting how long it took the church to really catch on to what actually happened off Armageddon Reef and Darcos Sound... They virtually completed a whole new galley fleet before a light bulb went off for Clyntahn as he realized that the church would need galleons of their own to counter Charis.

Don

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I think it's just that the Church, including Clyntahn, really believed its own propaganda about innovation being dangerous and largely unnecessary at that stage of the war. Also they had hardly any experience in judging the practical effects of radically new techniques at that time, since they had been discouraging them for so long. So they were effectively hidebound by their own rules and practices of thought.


Yep. That summarizes it relates good.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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