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Lost Testament of Schueler

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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by evilauthor   » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:42 am

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Randomiser wrote:All the archangels stood behind whatever went out in the name of any one of them. So it doesn't really matter who actually wrote the book of Scheuler; if it went out while he was involved in running the show he stood behind it and is morally and legally responsible for it.


What if Chihiro had the Book of Scheuler printed and distributed before Scheuler himself actually got to review it? Is it really worth starting ANOTHER civil war because your boss (which IIRC Chihiro was at the time) used your name for the contents of a document without your permission?
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Dauntless   » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:17 pm

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plus there is no hard dates for when it was relased in teh first place.

merlin comments that it wasn't in the original version left in the cave but the book of schuler could well have been added after the war against the fallen was won and schuler was dead or at least not around to argue that the book was nothing to do with him.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:20 pm

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re the blank page, I think I remember RFC wrote somewhere that the page was included in order to symbolize that the history recorded in the preceding section wasn't complete as the world was still continuing onwards.

As for the Lost Testament of Schueler, I can see the Order of Shueler pulling out an ancient-but-important-to-the-Inquisition relic for display, only when the relic is carried into the great hall and placed in the exact center for everyone to look at, it causes several previously-concealed bookcases to rise out of the floor, complete with well-preserved texts penned by the original so-called Archangels and which includes what Shueler actually wrote...
With the papers having obviously been in the Temple since it was built, no-one would dare to question their authenticity, but the differences between the papers and the Writ would cause some... issues...
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Randomiser   » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:38 am

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evilauthor wrote:
Randomiser wrote:All the archangels stood behind whatever went out in the name of any one of them. So it doesn't really matter who actually wrote the book of Scheuler; if it went out while he was involved in running the show he stood behind it and is morally and legally responsible for it.


What if Chihiro had the Book of Scheuler printed and distributed before Scheuler himself actually got to review it? Is it really worth starting ANOTHER civil war because your boss (which IIRC Chihiro was at the time) used your name for the contents of a document without your permission?


Maybe not because of your name being attached to it, but certainly because of the policies it embodies. Continuing to work with and for an administration advocating those kind of policies says something about your moral stance and character. Of course we don't have a complete timeline of ththe period involved, so he may not have done so. But it just seems to me that there is a desperation to rehabilitate Scheuler on the forum which is, so far, very little supported by the evidence available.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by isaac_newton   » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:58 am

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Randomiser wrote:
evilauthor wrote:SNIP
What if Chihiro had the Book of Scheuler printed and distributed before Scheuler himself actually got to review it? Is it really worth starting ANOTHER civil war because your boss (which IIRC Chihiro was at the time) used your name for the contents of a document without your permission?


Maybe not because of your name being attached to it, but certainly because of the policies it embodies. Continuing to work with and for an administration advocating those kind of policies says something about your moral stance and character. Of course we don't have a complete timeline of ththe period involved, so he may not have done so. But it just seems to me that there is a desperation to rehabilitate Scheuler on the forum which is, so far, very little supported by the evidence available.


Well, there is the Welsyn family tradition and his hologram - those doen't seem to record the frothing sadist that the Book's author would have to be...
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Hildum   » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:13 pm

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Randomiser wrote:Random Thoughts
RE Printing
Interesting technical details on multi page printing, but what technical level has Safehold reached on printing? We know they have it. But is it manual and a couple of pages at a time or power driven and 16 or 32 up, or somewhere in between? (I don't know much about the


While they might not go to 16 or 32 pages per sheet, I would expect that they would do at least 8, (four per side, with two folds) to save production time. Given the technical level shown at the beginning of the series, I would expect that they would use something like the following: http://www.ontfin.com/Word/the-old-printing-press/ driven by a water wheel to print one side at a time. It has been a long time since I used one of these, but as I recall I could do a page every 15 to 20 seconds or so (the one I used was driven electrically, and required two people, one actually printing, and one on the brake in case the person did not get their hand clear of the presses in time. Not at all safe, and likely illegal to use in any country with sane worker protection laws today.) We would load a tray, do the production run with all sheets, then load another tray and print the other side for two sided printing.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Randomiser   » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:12 pm

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isaac_newton wrote:
Well, there is the Welsyn family tradition and his hologram - those doen't seem to record the frothing sadist that the Book's author would have to be...


Yes, but does that bear the weight people are trying to put on it?

The terms in which you express yourself illustrate a big part of the problem. Many posters set up this dichotomy that either Scheuler was a "frothing sadist" or a nice guy who would oppose Chihiro, then decide the Wyllsyn evidence shows it isn't the first so it must be the second.

However it seems to me that it is more likely that Scheuler was a very flawed man with some concerns about the outworking of policy who tried to set up a Plan B. One who agreed with the policy of repression to safeguard the technological ignorance of the population and the ascendancy of the CoGA but had some concerns that power might corrupt and some section of the church go overboard, acting in a way which would undercut its own moral authority. It's certainly possible to read his instructions as wanting to keep the people fat and happy, convinced that the Church acts entirely for their welfare and so protect its ultimate power.

Although his definition of when the Key should be used is so vague as to be practically useless, Scheuler's Plan B, as advertised, is designed to protect the power of the church and reinforce the Langhorne plan for Safehold.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Keith_w   » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:59 am

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Hildum wrote:
Randomiser wrote:Random Thoughts
RE Printing
Interesting technical details on multi page printing, but what technical level has Safehold reached on printing? We know they have it. But is it manual and a couple of pages at a time or power driven and 16 or 32 up, or somewhere in between? (I don't know much about the


While they might not go to 16 or 32 pages per sheet, I would expect that they would do at least 8, (four per side, with two folds) to save production time. Given the technical level shown at the beginning of the series, I would expect that they would use something like the following: http://www.ontfin.com/Word/the-old-printing-press/ driven by a water wheel to print one side at a time. It has been a long time since I used one of these, but as I recall I could do a page every 15 to 20 seconds or so (the one I used was driven electrically, and required two people, one actually printing, and one on the brake in case the person did not get their hand clear of the presses in time. Not at all safe, and likely illegal to use in any country with sane worker protection laws today.) We would load a tray, do the production run with all sheets, then load another tray and print the other side for two sided printing.


In addition to the size of the printing press, you also need to consider the size of paper that they could manufacture in an low-powered environment.
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Bluesqueak   » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:47 am

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I'm sure someone's done this before, but - looking at Schueler's speech:

"We leave you a fallen world,"

That is, we messed up.

"It's not the world we intended, the one we were charged to create,

It's not the world that we were supposed to establish on Safehold. We disobeyed the original orders.

but even Archangels can be touched by evil and twisted, bent and broken.
That is, Langhorne, Chihiro and possibly himself.

The war which raged here on Safehold after Shan-wei's fall


'fall' in the sense of 'fell in battle, killed', not 'fell into evil'.

is proof enough of that. Yet God has His true plan for all of His Work, and especially for all of His children. I charge you in His name never to forget that.

Whatever we do, however we mess up, God has a true plan. We may have given you a fake 'God's plan', but never forget that God's true plan will triumph.

Always to remember that however we [fake]Archangels may have failed of our charge, however we may have permitted His world to be marred, it's your task to remember His love and to show a reflection of it in yourselves.

However we may have failed, however we may have left you with a world that's as messed up as Proscriptions/Punishment Safehold, your job is to remember that the true God is a loving God.

It won't be an easy task. It will bring all too many of you to grief and to loss, and there will be far too many times when it seems a thankless, bitter duty. But it is the most important task any human being could ever assume.

Sounds like the Wyllsyns have been left the job of truth-carriers, as well as watchers. Jerry Knowles left his testament to people who didn't know what it contained, with instructions to leave it unopened for centuries. Has Schueler done the same with the Wyllsyns?

I leave this message because I leave you as my watchmen, my wardens, the guardsmen upon the wall. The [true] purpose of God's Church

Note 'God's Church', not Mother Church. Also, 'watchmen' in the original bible (the one the Safeholdians don't know) was often used for 'prophet'. Again, suggesting that Schueler wanted his descendants to wait and watch for some future event.

is to guide, to cherish, to love, and to serve His children. Do not let her stray from that high and holy charge. Do not let her slip into the errors of pride and arrogance, of the pursuit of earthly power or wealth,

That's plain enough, but why is he leaving the Wyllsyns with a secret charge of being church police? You'd think that this part of 'Schueler's Speech' would be miraculously available for replay whenever the Inquisition wanted to remind people that they were becoming corrupt.


of forgetting the destiny for which she was created."

Destiny implies an event in the future. If Schueler was talking about the behaviour of the church, you'd think he'd use 'purpose'. Instead he uses 'destiny'.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by martin   » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:36 am

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Its obvious the real Schueler was not the writer of the book that bears his name. Hence he was stitched up in some way. He was a bright, respected guy. So he guessed some of what was coming. He wasn't strong enough to stop it so planned to leave evidence to undercut it and establish the Truth,if the worst happened. Which of course it did. Easy :mrgreen:
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