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Lost Testament of Schueler

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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by WeberFan   » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:16 am

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Keith_w wrote:
PeterZ wrote: quote="BrightSoul" quote="martin" Isn't 20years PAST the much discussed 1000 year return of the Archangels? OK so that didn't happen. OK, Its fairly obvious that Schueler is actually a good guy. His book is full of the most hideous stuff on the planet - ergo it was credited to him ironically or in revenge by the piece of excriment that actually wrote it. /quote

Interesting to note that a Safeholdian year is .9ish Earth years.

That would be Y.O.G. 1100. ;) /quote

Not if they measured from the defeat of Kau Yuang's demons. 1,000 old earth years after the War Against the Fallen is just about right at 20 years out. {/quote}

What does old Earth years have to do with it? Except for the inner circle none of them know that Earth exists. On the other hand, i always assume that the return was scheduled for 1000 years after the departure.

I think I can put some of the speculation to bed on this:

Textev with emphasis mine:

How Firm a Foundation. May, Year of God 895. III. A Recon Skimmer, Above Carter's Ocean

"Because according to the 'Vision of Schueler,'" Wylsynn said softly, "the Archangels themselves will return a thousand years after the Creation to be sure Mother Church continues to serve the true plan of God."

As I recall, years are measured from the time of Creation? So year 895 (in the title) is 895 years from the Creation? That would mean (at least as of HFaF) that there are only 5 years remaining until the return, and as of ATSoT there's only a bit more than a year remaining? Am I wrong here?

If I'm right, and if the "Archangels really return" then a lot will have to happen quickly in the next arc, and it'll already be history - resolved one way or another?
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by BrightSoul   » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:51 pm

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The last Chapter of AtSoT is February YOG899. If the Calendar started at creation then we're looking at 101-201 years depending on point of reference.

My note about the difference between Safehold and Earth years was more along the lines of throwing out a little confusion. What if the "Angel" or "Archangel" who left that warning with Paityr's family forgot to translate their reference (t-years) to Safehold years?
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by WeberFan   » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:03 pm

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BrightSoul wrote:The last Chapter of AtSoT is February YOG899. If the Calendar started at creation then we're looking at 101-201 years depending on point of reference.

My note about the difference between Safehold and Earth years was more along the lines of throwing out a little confusion. What if the "Angel" or "Archangel" who left that warning with Paityr's family forgot to translate their reference (t-years) to Safehold years?

Further to my last, BrightSoul.

Of course, there's a good reference (no credit to me, but full kudos to those who have been contributing to the wiki!): http://safehold.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

The calendar started at the time of Creation, but the numbering was decoupled from that... So by the numbers, the day of Creation was -77. They're now up to +899. Which would make the total time since creation 976 years. Or about another 24 years. WHEW... His Celeryness doesn't have to explain. On the other hand, I guess he has to begin setting the stage...

EDIT...

In HFaF we hear Merlin thinking to himself after the scene in which they add Paityr Wylsynn to the Inner Circle: "This is the year 895, but they've numbered their 'Years of God' from the end of 'Shan-wei's Rebellion, from the time the Church of God turned into the Church of God Awaiting. The Day of Creation was seventy years - Standard years, not Safeholdian ones - before that. And that makes this year 979 since the Creation. Which means we've got twenty years, give or take, before whatever's going to happen happens."

21 years was in 985. We're now in February 899, 4 years later. So we've got 17 years left...
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by evilauthor   » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:32 pm

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WeberFan wrote:
BrightSoul wrote:The last Chapter of AtSoT is February YOG899. If the Calendar started at creation then we're looking at 101-201 years depending on point of reference.

My note about the difference between Safehold and Earth years was more along the lines of throwing out a little confusion. What if the "Angel" or "Archangel" who left that warning with Paityr's family forgot to translate their reference (t-years) to Safehold years?

Further to my last, BrightSoul.

Of course, there's a good reference (no credit to me, but full kudos to those who have been contributing to the wiki!): http://safehold.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

The calendar started at the time of Creation, but the numbering was decoupled from that... So by the numbers, the day of Creation was -77. They're now up to +899. Which would make the total time since creation 976 years. Or about another 24 years. WHEW... His Celeryness doesn't have to explain. On the other hand, I guess he has to begin setting the stage...

EDIT...

In HFaF we hear Merlin thinking to himself after the scene in which they add Paityr Wylsynn to the Inner Circle: "This is the year 895, but they've numbered their 'Years of God' from the end of 'Shan-wei's Rebellion, from the time the Church of God turned into the Church of God Awaiting. The Day of Creation was seventy years - Standard years, not Safeholdian ones - before that. And that makes this year 979 since the Creation. Which means we've got twenty years, give or take, before whatever's going to happen happens."

21 years was in 985. We're now in February 899, 4 years later. So we've got 17 years left...


I always thought this calendar change would be another hammer that could be used to bash the Church of God Awaiting and Chihiro in particular.

"Why is year zero the defeat of Shan-Wei's rebellion and not Creation? Is Shan-Wei's Rebellion supposed and the Archangel's victory over her supposed to be more important than the creation of the Adams and Eves, an act of God Himself?"
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Hildum   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:20 pm

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I suspect the lost testament is not very long. It likely has to fit on that one blank page in the writ.

So it cannot be a revelation of the truth.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:33 am

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Hildum wrote:I suspect the lost testament is not very long. It likely has to fit on that one blank page in the writ.

So it cannot be a revelation of the truth.

Why does it have to fit on the one blank page. There is no textev at all that that is where the Lost Testament of Schueler was supposed to go.
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Hildum   » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:22 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
Hildum wrote:I suspect the lost testament is not very long. It likely has to fit on that one blank page in the writ.

So it cannot be a revelation of the truth.

Why does it have to fit on the one blank page. There is no textev at all that that is where the Lost Testament of Schueler was supposed to go.


Then why is there a blank page in the Writ? You are suggesting it is there for something other than LToS. Perhaps something related to the return?
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by shayvaan   » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:02 am

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Hildum wrote:Then why is there a blank page in the Writ? You are suggesting it is there for something other than LToS. Perhaps something related to the return?


While there is no reason given for the traditional blank page between Chihiro and Hastings, at this time, it appears to be only a plot device allowing Erayk Dynnys to get out his final letter to Zherald Ahdymsyn and Paityr, which produced such nice problems for their faith in Mother Church.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by evilauthor   » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:03 pm

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shayvaan wrote:
Hildum wrote:Then why is there a blank page in the Writ? You are suggesting it is there for something other than LToS. Perhaps something related to the return?


While there is no reason given for the traditional blank page between Chihiro and Hastings, at this time, it appears to be only a plot device allowing Erayk Dynnys to get out his final letter to Zherald Ahdymsyn and Paityr, which produced such nice problems for their faith in Mother Church.


You know, I always wondered if the traditional blank page was included expressly for the purpose of people needing to smuggle out messages from prison.

Although given that real world books can have these blank pages, and that Chihiro started off as a scholar and historian, I suspect the blank page was included because it was a thing that Terran scholars did.
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Re: Lost Testament of Schueler
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:57 pm

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WeberFan wrote:
BrightSoul wrote:The last Chapter of AtSoT is February YOG899. If the Calendar started at creation then we're looking at 101-201 years depending on point of reference.

My note about the difference between Safehold and Earth years was more along the lines of throwing out a little confusion. What if the "Angel" or "Archangel" who left that warning with Paityr's family forgot to translate their reference (t-years) to Safehold years?

Further to my last, BrightSoul.

Of course, there's a good reference (no credit to me, but full kudos to those who have been contributing to the wiki!): http://safehold.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

The calendar started at the time of Creation, but the numbering was decoupled from that... So by the numbers, the day of Creation was -77. They're now up to +899. Which would make the total time since creation 976 years. Or about another 24 years. WHEW... His Celeryness doesn't have to explain. On the other hand, I guess he has to begin setting the stage...

EDIT...

In HFaF we hear Merlin thinking to himself after the scene in which they add Paityr Wylsynn to the Inner Circle: "This is the year 895, but they've numbered their 'Years of God' from the end of 'Shan-wei's Rebellion, from the time the Church of God turned into the Church of God Awaiting. The Day of Creation was seventy years - Standard years, not Safeholdian ones - before that. And that makes this year 979 since the Creation. Which means we've got twenty years, give or take, before whatever's going to happen happens."

21 years was in 985. We're now in February 899, 4 years later. So we've got 17 years left...


The conclusion is that these calculations are easy to get wrong. Terran standard years, Safehold years, Day of Creation, End of Shan-Wei's rebellion.

I think I remember some thread some years ago where even his Celeryness himself admitted he had gotten in trouble with them at one point.

What I am getting at: We all seem to be assuming that the Archangels get their 1000-year time calculations right.
What if they don't though? Since everyone else has trouble with them too.
That would be kind of funny if they calculated their 1000-year span in Terran years and Merlin in Safeholdian years or vice versa. Or if there were different dogmatic opinions on which day really to declare the Day of Creation or whatever. Not to mention the possibility they might have used '1000 years' as a synonym for 'long time' instead of a mathematically exact description.
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