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What happens to Helm Cleaver now?

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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by ecortez   » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:04 am

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I doubt Helm Cleaver is just going to be disbanded. Okay we've done what we set out to do. Good job people, you can all go home now! I think the organization is going to stick around and become the Empire of Charis' version of the CIA. In the immediate future at least, there shouldn't be any further need for carrying out hits against Vicars.

Maybe they'll retire those operatives who probably can't be brought into the Inner Circle and initiate the rest. Then they can be a proper modern intelligence agency with electronic surveillance and AI support. Nimue's Cave might end up being enlarged a little to double as their HQ. Nothing like an inaccessible location none of your adversaries can find!
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by mhicks   » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:31 pm

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The inquisition under Duchairn control rounds up the most vile and resistant inquisitors with their group of agents that also are resistant to the new change of things and they get blamed for being The Fist of God and take the fall and are executed for treason. It sends a message to the inquisitors that there is a change in the wind and they have to step in line or they are out. Helms Cleaver acts as the sword hanging over the kings throne to keep the CoG in line with what they agreed to as part of the wars end, but fades away to the background.
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:04 am

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mhicks wrote:The inquisition under Duchairn control rounds up the most vile and resistant inquisitors with their group of agents that also are resistant to the new change of things and they get blamed for being The Fist of God and take the fall and are executed for treason. It sends a message to the inquisitors that there is a change in the wind and they have to step in line or they are out. Helms Cleaver acts as the sword hanging over the kings throne to keep the CoG in line with what they agreed to as part of the wars end, but fades away to the background.



First of all, there were already trials and executions of the corrupt vicars (those who did not simply resign to avoid the hammer of justice) as reported at the time that Clinton was given the facts of his hero's.
Secondly, there is no reason to think that Duchairn would see Fist of God as enemies... he sought them out for help. Lastly, there is no evidence that anyone in CoG hierarchy has a clue about Helm Cleaver or the Sisters of St Kody.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by mhicks   » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:10 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:

First of all, there were already trials and executions of the corrupt vicars (those who did not simply resign to avoid the hammer of justice) as reported at the time that Clinton was given the facts of his hero's.
Secondly, there is no reason to think that Duchairn would see Fist of God as enemies... he sought them out for help. Lastly, there is no evidence that anyone in CoG hierarchy has a clue about Helm Cleaver or the Sisters of St Kody.


I was just thinking that The Fist of God was not part of the Charisian Empire and they were waging a war against the church too. Duchairn needs to make the people feel safe in Zion. There needs to be peace. The FoG could still mess with the church as a terrorist type group and people living on the Mainland would accuse Charis of being the perpetrators. But if the FoG is thought to be cleaned up and it was blamed on someone Duchain does not want in the church anymore it would kill two birds with one stone. Helm Cleaver will forever remain as part of the background in the shadows and only as needed form new groups like the FoG to do the work they want done. A sleeper cell that acts like a cancer.
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:49 am

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mhicks wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:

First of all, there were already trials and executions of the corrupt vicars (those who did not simply resign to avoid the hammer of justice) as reported at the time that Clinton was given the facts of his hero's.
Secondly, there is no reason to think that Duchairn would see Fist of God as enemies... he sought them out for help. Lastly, there is no evidence that anyone in CoG hierarchy has a clue about Helm Cleaver or the Sisters of St Kody.


I was just thinking that The Fist of God was not part of the Charisian Empire and they were waging a war against the church too. Duchairn needs to make the people feel safe in Zion. There needs to be peace. The FoG could still mess with the church as a terrorist type group and people living on the Mainland would accuse Charis of being the perpetrators. But if the FoG is thought to be cleaned up and it was blamed on someone Duchain does not want in the church anymore it would kill two birds with one stone. Helm Cleaver will forever remain as part of the background in the shadows and only as needed form new groups like the FoG to do the work they want done. A sleeper cell that acts like a cancer.


You mean like doing the work that the Inquisition is supposed to be doing?
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:05 pm

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mhicks wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:

First of all, there were already trials and executions of the corrupt vicars (those who did not simply resign to avoid the hammer of justice) as reported at the time that Clinton was given the facts of his hero's.
Secondly, there is no reason to think that Duchairn would see Fist of God as enemies... he sought them out for help. Lastly, there is no evidence that anyone in CoG hierarchy has a clue about Helm Cleaver or the Sisters of St Kody.


I was just thinking that The Fist of God was not part of the Charisian Empire and they were waging a war against the church too. Duchairn needs to make the people feel safe in Zion. There needs to be peace. The FoG could still mess with the church as a terrorist type group and people living on the Mainland would accuse Charis of being the perpetrators. But if the FoG is thought to be cleaned up and it was blamed on someone Duchain does not want in the church anymore it would kill two birds with one stone. Helm Cleaver will forever remain as part of the background in the shadows and only as needed form new groups like the FoG to do the work they want done. A sleeper cell that acts like a cancer.



The FoG was not even on the radar till after the Inquisition went totally out of control with the purge of the Vicars.
I suspect that the typical 'man on the street' has an image of them as a vigalenty group that formed as a reaction to that lack of control... Too many friends and neighbors were disappeared and too many sons, fathers, husbands and brothers KIA, MIA or WIA for the church to make the FoG a long term villain.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by n7axw   » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:38 pm

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I don't know what happens to Helm Cleaver. But with Arbelest as a member of the inner circle, I doubt that it will go completely dormat. It probably will continue as an intel source, at least for a while. But as the assault on the prescriptions becomes more direct, we could see shifting loyalties amongst it's members as well as the ssk. Remember, Helm Cleaver was initiated as a protest against corruption, not a challenge to the world view that the Writ mandates.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:32 am

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n7axw wrote:I don't know what happens to Helm Cleaver. But with Arbelest as a member of the inner circle, I doubt that it will go completely dormat. It probably will continue as an intel source, at least for a while. But as the assault on the prescriptions becomes more direct, we could see shifting loyalties amongst it's members as well as the ssk. Remember, Helm Cleaver was initiated as a protest against corruption, not a challenge to the world view that the Writ mandates.

Don

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HI Don,

With the head of Helm Cleaver being a member of the inner circle, we may well start to see a shift in the emphasis towards a more personal responsibility to God, instead of the writ, starting with the full translation of the journal of St Kohdy
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by n7axw   » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:04 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
n7axw wrote:I don't know what happens to Helm Cleaver. But with Arbelest as a member of the inner circle, I doubt that it will go completely dormat. It probably will continue as an intel source, at least for a while. But as the assault on the prescriptions becomes more direct, we could see shifting loyalties amongst it's members as well as the ssk. Remember, Helm Cleaver was initiated as a protest against corruption, not a challenge to the world view that the Writ mandates.

Don

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HI Don,

With the head of Helm Cleaver being a member of the inner circle, we may well start to see a shift in the emphasis towards a more personal responsibility to God, instead of the writ, starting with the full translation of the journal of St Kohdy


The whole notion of the Writ implies that the Writ is inspired by God, so responsibility to one is responsibility to the other... That is what many Protestants are talking about in referring to the Bible as the Word of God. Sometimes this is known as fundamentalism. What has taken a hit so far in the series is the notion of the COGA having a monopoly on interpreting the Writ.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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