Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cartref, Google [Bot], Son_of_Sith and 2 guests

What happens to Helm Cleaver now?

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by Expert snuggler   » Fri May 05, 2017 10:15 pm

Expert snuggler
Captain of the List

Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:15 am

If Safehold's laws of war are anything like ours then Helm Cleaver was blackly illegal.

Duchairn is conservative enough to care about law on principle and savvy enough not to want an organization around that is good at assassinating Vicars.

One option is to evacuate all Helm Cleaver assets from Zion now that they're no longer needed (or are they?).

Duchairn strikes me as not the type to keep Helm Cleaver around as a way to eliminate his enemies.

One option is that he could pardon them all, but that is not going to fly with the families and the peers of HC's victims.
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Fri May 05, 2017 11:15 pm

DrakBibliophile
Admiral

Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:54 pm
Location: East Central Illinois

Duchairn likely still doesn't know much about the Helm Cleaver organization. IE who are members on the organization. Obviously he likely knows who are two of its leadership but generally there's not much he actually do.

On the other hand, their "mission" was to purge the Church of corrupt vicars and other high clergy. Since Duchairn is now dealing with the corruption within the Church, the Helm Cleaver organization's job is unnecessary and both him & they know it.

Of course, if the members of Helm Cleaver remain unknown to the "general public", then there is no need to pardon them.

As for the relatives of Helm Cleaver's "victims", I suspect that they might be more worried about what Duchairn will find out about their activities.

Helm Cleaver's "victims" were the "worst of the lot" when it came to corruption, but their families might not be that clean themselves. :twisted:

Expert snuggler wrote:If Safehold's laws of war are anything like ours then Helm Cleaver was blackly illegal.

Duchairn is conservative enough to care about law on principle and savvy enough not to want an organization around that is good at assassinating Vicars.

One option is to evacuate all Helm Cleaver assets from Zion now that they're no longer needed (or are they?).

Duchairn strikes me as not the type to keep Helm Cleaver around as a way to eliminate his enemies.

One option is that he could pardon them all, but that is not going to fly with the families and the peers of HC's victims.
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
*
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by jtg452   » Sun May 07, 2017 1:31 pm

jtg452
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:46 pm

I'm with Drak.

Let them fade back into the shadows.

They will have information that he would find useful. They have been watching (and acting on) the information they have been able to acquire about abuses my powerful members of the clergy. That information would be quite valuable to his investigators.

Besides, knowing that there's a group as capable as Helm Cleaver out there that's in the shadows watching could be a very strong deterrent.
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by Henry Brown   » Sun May 07, 2017 10:42 pm

Henry Brown
Commodore

Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:57 pm
Location: Greenville NC

I suspect Helm Cleaver carries on but with much more of an emphasis on espionage and much less on direct action. How is Duchairn going to stop them? I mean, Clyntahn's Inquisition couldn't identify and stop Helm Cleaver. Why should Duchairn's version of the GoG do any better?
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by Dauntless   » Mon May 08, 2017 8:54 am

Dauntless
Captain of the List

Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:54 pm

I expect Helm Cleaver to retreat to the shadows and give Duchain a chance to fix things. though as the head of helm cleaver Nynian is likely to use it to subtly nudge duchain into becoming more and more like the Church of Charis.

honestly they don't need to do more. with all the innovation the Jihad has sparked the planet is not going back to sleep, so Helm Cleaver will keep Duchain honest on and the path to fixing things while the more senior members are gradually brought into the inner circle and preparations are made for "The Return"
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Thu May 11, 2017 5:53 pm

PlaysWithBees
Lieutenant (Junior Grade)

Posts: 28
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:37 am

I can see their main focus shifting from Zion to Harchong (north) as the main source of corruption. Assets known to Durcheim will probably be transferred out or quietly separated from active Zion operations so as to keep active cells going with no direct contact to those known to be agents. I think that "Barcor" may remain in place as an unofficial liaison between Durcheim and Ninyan. Active operations will be turned over to someone with no known connections to Ninyan.
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by phillies   » Fri May 12, 2017 3:24 pm

phillies
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1685
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:43 am
Location: Worcester, MA

Helm Cleaver was a mild variant on the modern American custom of seeking to dronify your opponents. There are no interesting legal issues here. However, the war is over.

Duchairn may be given advance copies of the long series of to-be-published books "The Corruption of the Church of God Awaiting" based on the steamer trunks full of documents that moved from Zion to Charis some books ago. After all, with advance warning, Duchairn can arrest miscreants before they escape.

Will it be hard to ghostwrite them? Not with large-scale ai support.
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Fri May 12, 2017 5:34 pm

DrakBibliophile
Admiral

Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:54 pm
Location: East Central Illinois

IIRC Duchairn is using those "steamer trunks" already in cleaning house. ;)

Now it is possible that Helm Cleaver might assist Duchairn in discovering other corrupt members of the clergy.

While the Inquisition is being "cleaned up as well", Duchairn may need a "second set of eyes" to ensure that the new Inquisition is doing it's job of finding corrupt clergy.


phillies wrote:Helm Cleaver was a mild variant on the modern American custom of seeking to dronify your opponents. There are no interesting legal issues here. However, the war is over.

Duchairn may be given advance copies of the long series of to-be-published books "The Corruption of the Church of God Awaiting" based on the steamer trunks full of documents that moved from Zion to Charis some books ago. After all, with advance warning, Duchairn can arrest miscreants before they escape.

Will it be hard to ghostwrite them? Not with large-scale ai support.
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
*
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by saber964   » Fri May 12, 2017 10:30 pm

saber964
Admiral

Posts: 2103
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: Spokane WA USA

hears what I see ahead for Helm Cleaver. They will be something like what happened to the OSS and SOE after WWII but with the added benefit of picking off the occasional Inquisitor on the hang on capture list.
Top
Re: What happens to Helm Cleaver now?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:40 pm

C. O. Thompson
Captain of the List

Posts: 505
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:32 pm
Location: Thompson, CT USA

There is no text evidence that Duchairn ever heard of Helm Cleaver... Fist of God? Yes.
I believe that they continue much as had for centuries... but that they move into the guard the back door to the temple taking over the estate that the Inquisition guarded so carefully. Keep in mind that the two secrets dated to the time of the War of the Fallen and no one else found out. Merlin will need to get information out of the room under the temple and the door has to be kept clear.

I have a thought of Merlin sitting there when what ever it there wakes up having already isolated what ever risk is there.




Expert snuggler wrote:If Safehold's laws of war are anything like ours then Helm Cleaver was blackly illegal.

Duchairn is conservative enough to care about law on principle and savvy enough not to want an organization around that is good at assassinating Vicars.

One option is to evacuate all Helm Cleaver assets from Zion now that they're no longer needed (or are they?).

Duchairn strikes me as not the type to keep Helm Cleaver around as a way to eliminate his enemies.

One option is that he could pardon them all, but that is not going to fly with the families and the peers of HC's victims.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
Top

Return to Safehold