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Safehold post-Jihad

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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:59 pm

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shayvaan wrote:Quite aside from the implications of adding 5-7 million TLs to the population of the EOC (over a million of whom were soldiers who were dedicated to BREAKING the EOC), where would you come up with the infrastructure to feed them? Educate them (remember these are mostly serfs)? Or any of the thousand and one other things like shelter and medical care that goes into a stable society?


IIRC, Silverlode is an unpopulated (or at least under populated) island, which means it is "unsanctified." Importing enough food, let alone other materiel, to support 5-7 million people for the three-to-five years required to terraform the island enough to feed itself would be a non-trivial task.
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:49 pm

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3-5 years to consecrate or terraform land? Textev on this?

It'll take years to get all 5-7 million people to Silverlode. It will take more than 1 year to get the entire MH there. Estimating 3 months each way and 400k troops each trip, it'll take 4-5 trips and 2.5 years. Taking 3 months to ramp up logistics to feed 400k men for 6 months is pretty routine. 9 months to ramp up to feeding 800k men for another 6 months is even more straight forward. All the while those MH troopers are planting and harvesting consecrated land that is laid barren from the Sword of Sheuler. That will mitigate logistics needs to support the MH.

Building more Victory ships to bring the MH dependent to Silverlode seems like a justifiable rationale to stock up on steamers in excess of economic demand. Increasing the population of the Empire by 10%-15% as well as the potential of the Charisian economy is well worth the effort. After all the size of the economy is driven by how quickly the population grows when all else is equal. Since all else is NOT equal, the additional Charisian citizens means a much greater increase in production that anyone else could squeeze out the same number of people. So even granting the 3-5 year requirement to consecrate land, Charis has a huge incentive to support those men resettling in Silverlode.
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:06 pm

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PeterZ wrote:3-5 years to consecrate or terraform land? Textev on this?


No textev, just a SWAG.
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by Louis R   » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:31 pm

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And one that may be wildly optimistic, at that. There is, IIRC, a rather vague discussion of the subject around the point where the action moves into the South March Lands. _if_ my memory serves, the reason that they are so lightly populated is that it's only recently that consecration has advanced to the point where they are starting to be able to support larger populations. Some 40-50 years after Siddarmark annexed the region.

Which is no real surprise - consecration must be far, far more complex a process than simply burning off the native vegetation, plowing the land and planting Terran crops. And that assumes that the land _is_ plowable. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Silverlode turned out to be something of a tropical version of the Haliburton or Algonquin highlands: once all those incredible lush forests are cleared, it turns out you're lucky if there's 6 inches of soil to plant in. Homesteading in a place like that is a disaster. And all those giant trees that drew you in? Once they're gone, you never see their like again.

Weird Harold wrote:
PeterZ wrote:3-5 years to consecrate or terraform land? Textev on this?


No textev, just a SWAG.
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:15 pm

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Louis R wrote:Which is no real surprise - consecration must be far, far more complex a process than simply burning off the native vegetation, plowing the land and planting Terran crops. And that assumes that the land _is_ plowable.


I was figuring on "consecration" of just enough soil to grow enough terran crops to feed immigrants. Complete "consecration" would take far longer. That would involve importing enough terran biota/compost to establish tillable soil after burning out the native biota -- a bit more complicated than slash-and-burn, but not much.
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:53 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Louis R wrote:Which is no real surprise - consecration must be far, far more complex a process than simply burning off the native vegetation, plowing the land and planting Terran crops. And that assumes that the land _is_ plowable.


I was figuring on "consecration" of just enough soil to grow enough terran crops to feed immigrants. Complete "consecration" would take far longer. That would involve importing enough terran biota/compost to establish tillable soil after burning out the native biota -- a bit more complicated than slash-and-burn, but not much.


Ok, so it'll take 3-5 years to consecrate enough land to support 5-7 million people. Transporting the MH and dependents will take about 3 years. The MH will come in 4-5 waves over that time. During that time those that await their turn can work the fields of Tarikah to offset the food the immigrants and their families will need in Silverlode. 1 million or so ex serfs can work quite a bit of farmland and can easily support 7 million immigrants. Once they leave for Silverlode, Siddermark will once again have working farms in the area. MH contingents ship out, Siddermarkians can move back in.

Once the last of the MH arrives in Silverlode, some portion of the consecrated land can begin to be farmed. That acreage will only expand over time. Yeah, this is a big effort but consistent with what God wants from His children. The devout Harchongese will find the effort a soul cleansing experience after being Clyntahn's hachet men.

The more I think of it, I doubt all the MH will move to Silverlode. The Lord Protector will accept some smaller number of immigrants and their families as opposed to the entire MH. Just how many is open to question. I also wouldn't be surprised if these new Charisian immigrants get together with some ship owners to transport serfs from North Harchong to Green Tree and from their to Silverlode. I believe Safehold Historian will call that the "Undergound Canal" or "Silverlode Ferry".
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by Sharp Claw   » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:46 pm

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Many people would like to go to Silverlode, not just the MH, Even if the food had to be imported. Think about the mining boom towns of the American West.

If the MH goes anywhere, why wouldn't they want to go to Harchong to free their brother & sister serfs from aristocratic oppression?
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by Isilith   » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:06 pm

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Yes, I am sure the EoC wants to commit suicide by bringing in a few million trained soldiers that want to destroy them. Sheer BRILLIANCE guys. :lol:
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:24 am

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Why do the Mighty Host want to destroy the Charisian? The Grand Vicar has agreed that Charis was right all along in their resistance to the G4 excesses. Excess that the Grand Vicar was involved with from the beginning. He agreed that Zhaspar Clyntahn drove the CoGA and the jihadi forces to commit many, many atrocities that the MH participated in. THEY are more guilty of transgressing against God than the Charisians according to the Grand Vicar.

Why would they continue to wish further harm for people they have already unjustly harmed in the name of following orders of a corrupt Church leader? Many devout jihadis would want to expiate the harm they did. That includes the Might Host.
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Re: Safehold post-Jihad
Post by SCC   » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:31 am

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Gotta agree with the last poster, there's no way that Cayleb would allow the MH to settle on Sliverlode, no reason. Also having them return home to cause trouble in Harchong gets him benefits.

As for the COGA and the EOC coming to logger heads over a slave/serf uprising in Harchong or Desniar, those two are breaking with the COGA to keep them, why would the Church support them?
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