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Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT

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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by n7axw   » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:06 pm

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DrakBibliophile wrote:Under House Arrest? :twisted:

n7axw wrote:I think that the basic penalty for what happened to Manthyr is paid in the scenes portraying the destruction of Gorath's waterfront. It was congruent with the penalty imposed on Delferahk after the massacre of its merchant seamen.

Fern was kind of an interesting fellow. He seemed generally constructive, but his stepping down might have been a symbolic gesture implying that new leadership was needed at a critical time.

Another question... where was Thorast during those meetings when he was missing....

Don

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Maybe... it's certainly as good a guess as any. What makes the question interesting is that he turns up missing in two meetings with the church prioŕ to Thirsk's coup... That implies that someone other than Thirsk engineers the house arrest.

Also in those meetings, Salthar's attitude goes from automatically being a rabid church partisan to demonstrating considerable independence.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by Louis R   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:38 pm

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I suspect that that was Fern's doing, maybe with Ahlvarez.

n7axw wrote:
< snip >
Also in those meetings, Salthar's attitude goes from automatically being a rabid church partisan to demonstrating considerable independence.

Don

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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:43 pm

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Very likely Salthar remained strongly loyal to the Church but like many Temple Loyalists decided that the Grand Inquisitor wasn't acting in the Best Interests of the Church and definitely wasn't acting according to God's Will.

n7axw wrote:
DrakBibliophile wrote:Under House Arrest? :twisted:



Maybe... it's certainly as good a guess as any. What makes the question interesting is that he turns up missing in two meetings with the church prioŕ to Thirsk's coup... That implies that someone other than Thirsk engineers the house arrest.

Also in those meetings, Salthar's attitude goes from automatically being a rabid church partisan to demonstrating considerable independence.

Don

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Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:41 pm

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I agree Drak...
I don't recall a resolve between the Temple and Dolor or any indication about their position towards the Church of Charis

<snip>


[quote="DrakBibliophile"]Very likely Salthar remained strongly loyal to the Church but like many Temple Loyalists decided that the Grand Inquisitor wasn't acting in the Best Interests of the Church and definitely wasn't acting according to God's Will.

[quote="n7axw"][quote="DrakBibliophile"]Under House Arrest? :twisted:



Maybe... it's certainly as good a guess as any. What makes the question interesting is that he turns up missing in two meetings with the church prioŕ to Thirsk's coup... That implies that someone other than Thirsk engineers the house arrest.

Also in those meetings, Salthar's attitude goes from automatically being a rabid church partisan to demonstrating considerable independence.

Don

<snip>
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by Louis R   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:34 pm

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That, basically, is the substance of Fern's internal reflection during one of those meetings. Something to the effect of "that's the problem with men of faith"


DrakBibliophile wrote:Very likely Salthar remained strongly loyal to the Church but like many Temple Loyalists decided that the Grand Inquisitor wasn't acting in the Best Interests of the Church and definitely wasn't acting according to God's Will.

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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by McGuiness   » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:36 am

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I've been a major advocate of infiltrating the Temple, then locking the doors and searching the basement. A few hundred burly pilgrims with shotguns under their coats/cloaks would do the job nicely... Sorry we didn't get that scene, or the ships steaming into Temple Bay and unloading the troops Without the coup, the fact that the Temple boys were starting to call the Jihad "Clyntahn's war" and the TLs were getting sick of losing their husbands, fathers, and brothers to an unwinnable Jihad appeared to be prepping Zion to welcome an invasion that would remove Clyntahn and the Inquisition. Since both Cayleb and Sharley swore that the day would come, I was really disappointed that it didn't.

But it still might if Merlin determines that they need access to the Temple and Duchairn refuses. He really doesn't have a foot to stand on if he tries barring entry to the Temple to members of the schismatic Churches who believe in the Writ just as the CoGA does, but they've had it with being ruled from Zion. Since the law that every child of God is required to make a pilgrimage to the Temple hasn't been revoked, the CoGA will have to brace itself to accept pilgrims from the CoC and the CoS. That will be fun, especially when their inquisitors ask to see the secret records! ;)

The task of searching out the secrets in the basement will probably fall to Paityr Wylsynn when the day comes, since he's a Schuelerite after all and a member of the Inquisition. (Patent office branch.) ;)

Now that we know the Inquisition has secret files that include holograms of the original team of Operation Ark, getting copies of those would be quite a revelation. Since the Inquisition has been effectively neutered, Duchairn ought to share their secret records with the schismatic churches in the spirit of openness, and to ensure that those who should be punished for an excess of religious zeal hang by the neck until dead or face a firing squad. The CoC and the CoS would be much more motivated to dig through the records than the CoGA.

Whatever nasty surprises are lurking in the basement need to be found so Merlin will know what threats his agenda is facing. And don't get the stone of Schueler anywhere near the room where it's supposed to be used in the Church's direst hour! :lol:

What exactly WILL be the CoGA's direst hour now that it officially recognizes the doctrinal validity of any schism that follows the Writ? (Even minus the books of Schueler and Chihiro, like the CoC and the CoS.) If the Hamilcar shows up, the CoGA won't be able to call for help using the Stone, since Paityr Wylsynn has it safely in Charis. That scene looms somewhere in the future...

Obviously these churches aren't all going to get along, especially considering the bad blood between them I haven't heard that Maikel Staynair has revoked his "kill inquisitors on sight" order, although there's going to be a lot fewer of them now that they've split it into two orders again.

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by pbreed   » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:41 pm

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We know that the inquisition files have holograms and audio...

None of the Good guys know this....
The only revelation of this was in the grand fornicators thoughts.... not spoken... so the good guys still don't know about this....
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Re: Spoilers - Scenes you'd like to have seen in AtSoT
Post by DMcCunney   » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:24 pm

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I can think of scenes I'd like to see.

One was an expansion of Thirsk's meeting with Bishop Maik where he discusses his thoughts on what his responsibilities are now that his family is no longer a factor, and that what he can do will depend strongly upon Maik. It will likely be where he says "I can no longer obey King Rahnyld and his ministers as their actions lead my navy and my country to ruin in the service of the Jihad", and Maik confesses that he can no longer obey his vows to serve and obey the Grand Inquisitor, as Clyntahn has led Mother Church to irreparable schism and the point of run, has systematically lied to everyone, and has demonstrated himself unfit to be a priest, let alone Grand Inquisitor.

(I'd also be curious to know just when Thirsk said "By the way, Staiphan, my family is alive. A couple of associates of Seijin Merlin got them off the vessel transporting them to Zion before it went to the bottom. Merlin himself showed up in my townhouse to tell me and offer proof!" Likely not till Maik laid his cards on the table, though.)

I'd also love to see more of the behind the scenes stuff that resulted in Thisk's meeting with Bishop Executor Lainyr and Father Karymych, where we discover Thirsk is the new First Councilor of Dorath, and units of Thirsk's Navy and Alvharez's Army are in the process of kicking the Inquisition out of Gorath.

I'm not startled at Duke Fern stepping aside. He's always been in a difficult position as point man for an unfit King. Rahnyld had wanted to abdicate previously, but had not because his heir was too young to take the throne. With the Jihad being lost evident to everyone else aside from the Inquisition, and the Inquisition being forcibly removed from the playing field in Dohlor, Fern might just have breathed a huge sigh of relief. Circumstances were such that Rahnyld could abdicate, and Fern could hand off his responsibilities as First Councilor and head of Raynhld's heir's Regency council to the best qualified man to do it, with Earl Ahlvarez and now Archbishop Maik to assist. It's pretty obvious he stepped aside voluntarily.

Thorast likely is under house arrest, though an unmarked grave isn't out of the question. :P

Background on what all went on in Zion after Duchairn and Magwair made their move against the Inquisition would also be nice. Once they had established control with Duchairn as the clear leader, him becoming Grand Vicar was pretty much inevitable. I suspect Grand Vicar Erek happily resigned. He'd never been more than Trynair's puppet in any case, and might even have been more terrified of trying to rule Mother Church after the upheavals than he was of Clyntahn before the end. The Grand Vicar is elected by the Vicarate, and what was left of it probably elected him by acclamation. (Though the 42 that Duchairn went after for various high crimes and misdemeanors once he became Grand Vicar likely made a few of them regret that.)

And I am curious in retrospect about Merlin and Nimue waiting to intercept Clyntahn and Rayno, after taking out the 70 Inquisitor's Guard left waiting by the mouth of the tunnel from the Temple. I assume Nahrman and Owl were able to point them at the spot, and I suppose it's possible something the Paityr's dump passed along to his ancestors by Schueler might have indicated the tunnel existed, but Merlin, Nahrman, and Owl's reluctance to operate remotes too close to the Temple would indicate discovery of was from the other end.
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Dennis
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